TheInsanity1234 wrote:1: The law states that speed cameras must be clearly visible, so presumably a policeman holding a radar gun in an unmarked car could be an infringement of our rights?
TheInsanity1234 wrote:2: From the point where you join the road to where the speed limit changes there are absolutely no speed limit repeater signs whatsoever
TheInsanity1234 wrote:... there are absolutely no speed limit repeater signs whatsoever, despite the whole road seeming that of a 50/NSL road. For short stretches, there are street lights, ...
Gareth wrote:TheInsanity1234 wrote:1: The law states that speed cameras must be clearly visible, so presumably a policeman holding a radar gun in an unmarked car could be an infringement of our rights?
I'm not sure about this but I thought the 'visibility' rule only applies to manual speed detection systems operated by civilians.
hir wrote:PS: Gareth is correct - visibility applies only to civilian operated speed cameras.
hir wrote:[eventually].TheInsanity1234 wrote:... there are absolutely no speed limit repeater signs whatsoever, despite the whole road seeming that of a 50/NSL road. For short stretches, there are street lights, ...
There are street lights for the entire length of road until the NSL signs. The street lights certainly seem to comply with the ... "no more than 200 yards apart" criteria.
jameslb101 wrote:How do you know he was caught if you haven't relieved a NIP yet? IANAL but I'm I doubt your claimed mitigating factors would stand up as a defense. Oh, and don't don't expect consensus here over the rights and wrongs of what your dad did. As I wasn't there at the time, I won't make judgement on the situation but was the road a road likely to have enforcement?
Gareth wrote:TheInsanity1234 wrote:2: From the point where you join the road to where the speed limit changes there are absolutely no speed limit repeater signs whatsoever
Built-up area, houses fronting directly onto the road, street lights, the expectation of people on foot reinforced by the footpath on the section after the mini-roundabout.
In the past I'd have a expected a 40 mph limit from shortly after the mini-roundabout, but then dropping to 30 again for the next cluster of dwellings. After those, there is no footpath but then there's a handful of homes very close to the road. If you were living in one of the outlying houses how happy would you be to walk along the road at night, if the limit was 50 or NSL?
hir wrote:I'm afraid your dad is guilty as charged [eventually].
There are street lights for the entire length of road until the NSL signs. The street lights certainly seem to comply with the ... "no more than 200 yards apart" criteria. This means that the road is 30mph by default unless signs indicate otherwise, which they don't. Any 30mph repeater signs on the road in question would therefore be illegal; that's why there aren't any.
Presumably this road is local to your dad and one with which he is very familiar. My advice to your dad, if he eventually receives a NIP, is to face up to it and pay the fine.
PS: Gareth is correct - visibility applies only to civilian operated speed cameras.
MGF wrote:I assume from the OP that the Police Officer stopped his dad and if that was the case he would have been given a verbal NIP so no need for a postal one. Expect a conditional offer of 3 points and £100 penalty for 47 in a 30.
Is it worth looking for technical defences if your licence isn't at risk? I doubt the points will make much, if any, difference to his insurance premiums.
TheInsanity1234 wrote:doesn't want my dad to develop the same paranoia that she has towards speed and speed limits.
TheInsanity1234 wrote:My dad was caught speeding by a radar gun-toting police officer in an unmarked car at some point along Neath Road leaving Ystradgynlais in Wales, doing 47 mph in a 30 zone.
However, I suspect this is actually a wholly unfair prosecution because of two reasons.
1: The law states that speed cameras must be clearly visible, so presumably a policeman holding a radar gun in an unmarked car could be an infringement of our rights?
2: From the point where you join the road (here: https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=29+Station+Rd,+Ystradgynlais,+Swansea,+Powys+SA9,+United+Kingdom&hl=en&ll=51.776855,-3.757389&spn=0.007475,0.01929&sll=51.776763,-3.757131&sspn=0.007528,0.01929&oq=29+Stat&t=h&geocode=FbANFgMdrKnG_w&hnear=29+Station+Rd,+Ystradgynlais,+Powys,+United+Kingdom&z=16&layer=c&cbll=51.776784,-3.757269&panoid=-nw_OnpP1UGoif8i0qt7Lg&cbp=12,124.24,,0,-6.61) to where the speed limit changes (here: at point B on the route, https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=29+Station+Rd,+Ystradgynlais,+Swansea,+Powys+SA9,+United+Kingdom&daddr=Unknown+road&geocode=%3BFSTYFQMdnrDG_w&sll=51.763292,-3.755908&sspn=0.003738,0.009645&hl=en [that also includes the route, which is 1.1 miles long and is actually two different roads], there are absolutely no speed limit repeater signs whatsoever, despite the whole road seeming that of a 50/NSL road. For short stretches, there are street lights, and you do go through a cluster of small houses with frontages on the road, so that is reasonable, and my dad actually slowed down through that, but after that point, there is no clue that the speed limit is 30.
The other point that has to be mentioned is that when my dad went along the road, apparently he did not catch up to any cars on the road, and there were none in sight, so he couldn't have realised his mistake because there wasn't anyone else around to copy from.
TheInsanity1234 wrote:I was not in the car with my dad when he was caught speeding, but I went along the same road with my mum a bit later in the week to inspect it so that we could build a case to appeal against any tickets.
(So far, we have not received a NoIP even though it's been at least 3 weeks since my dad was caught speeding.)
So, it'd be interesting to see what you guys think.
Thanks.
Well, you see what happens when you presume ...TheInsanity1234 wrote:Yes, he was doing 30 in the village itself, but when you leave it, it turns into a road that you would presume has a 50 limit/NSL for the majority of the stretch. It goes uphill, very obviously out of the village, and there aren't any houses with direct frontages on to the road, just driveways e.t.c, then there's that cluster of houses which my dad says he slowed down through, which is reasonable enough, but after that it opens up again and seems like it should be 50 at the very least.
Personally, I wouldn't mind too much as I'm not stupid ...
TheInsanity1234 wrote:I've been along it, and there are only clusters of street lights ever now and then, and quite a few of them are hidden by the trees so there's not much chance of spotting them in daylight.
Gareth wrote:Paranoia towards (adherence to) speed limits is necessary if you want to keep your licence these days. If you want to 'speed' you need to accurately identify the prevailing limit, you ought to be good at judging the safety implications, and be good at assessing how likely the limit is to be policed.
martine wrote:It would be helpful if the local authority would put "30" roundels on the road at regular intervals in the less built-up areas as a reminder...but legally I don't think your Dad can expect to win any appeal on the grounds you mention.
Return to General Car Chat Forum
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests