What car?

[TheInsanity1234]

Shame Admiral are useless.

Useless as in expensive? Both my daughters found admiral the cheapest (Twingo and Corsa)...until they passed their IAM test...

No, cheap insurance it's always good insurance.

They were useless in the fact that their advisors know absolutely nothing about a car or what modifications are.

Dom

That'll be fine, since I don't intend on modifying whatever car I buy, and also good because it might mean I get cheaper insurance because they don't know that the Fiat Panda 100 HP is a sports version!

I found their call centre a nightmare when trying to add temporary additional drivers (after not being sure whether the online system for doing so was working).

It's not a problem with me, being deaf does have some benefits in life. One is you don't have to put up with gormless keyboard apes

[sussex2]

Mmmmmmmm!

[TheInsanity1234]

So, my list of cars which have decently affordable insurance, and don't make me want to park it behind a bush because it's a source of embarrassment every 5 minutes are:

Fiat Panda 100 HP

Suzuki Swift GLX VVTS

Renault Clio Ripcurl (Don't really want one of these, due to the daft headlight design)

Seat Izbia

Any suggestions?

[trashbat]

The Swift looks like fun too - I thought possibly someone on here had one, but I could be talking bum.

A plus for the Fiat is the owner community is generally excellent for Italian cars, certainly Alfaowner and I believe FiatForum too (Dom?). There's a fair few marque specialists around too for cheap, knowledgeable servicing. It's not exclusive to the brand by any means but these seem to be rarer - certain forums mostly consist of people saying 'oh dear, take it to the dealer'.

I can't think of much else along those lines without spending too long looking at weird ways of breaking the insurance model. Mazda 2? Citroen C2?

[TheInsanity1234]

The Swift looks like fun too - I thought possibly someone on here had one, but I could be talking bum.

A plus for the Fiat is the owner community is generally excellent for Italian cars, certainly Alfaowner and I believe FiatForum too (Dom?). There's a fair few marque specialists around too for cheap, knowledgeable servicing. It's not exclusive to the brand by any means but these seem to be rarer - certain forums mostly consist of people saying 'oh dear, take it to the dealer'.

I can't think of much else along those lines without spending too long looking at weird ways of breaking the insurance model. Mazda 2? Citroen C2?

Mazda2 seems like a nice one, but apparently it's slow, to the point you cannot do anything but laugh at how slow it is

The post 2008 models would have to be the ones I'd look at, I don't like the pre 2008 ones at all.

Just got a quote from Privilege for a 2008 Mazda2 1.3, £1,621.80. Not bad, I suppose.

RE: owner groups, it might be because Fiats tend to be lovely cars to drive, yet have terrible reputations in terms of reliability, and as such, are purchased by enthusiasts who don't mind rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in, rather than by people who couldn't tell you the difference between a dipstick and their left elbow.

[trashbat]

RE: owner groups, it might be because Fiats tend to be lovely cars to drive, yet have terrible reputations in terms of reliability, and as such, are purchased by enthusiasts who don't mind rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in, rather than by people who couldn't tell you the difference between a dipstick and their left elbow.

There's some truth in this, but it seems to my biased eyes to be more a case of people who care about their car from the outset rather than being forced into caring by their shonky car.

I know a bit about Fiat Group quality - I was a shareholder for a while, and continue to follow their progress. I'm not sure about the quality in the Panda of the age you're looking at, although I faintly recall it being positive - Polish-built? Anyway the current generation's factory at Pomigliano d'Arco won the World Class Manufacturing gold award. Audi executives came to visit to see their production line.

Edit: your prospective ones were built in Tychy, Poland, which was also a heavily modernised plant and won WCM Silver. Everything about reliability looks good.

[TheInsanity1234]

RE: owner groups, it might be because Fiats tend to be lovely cars to drive, yet have terrible reputations in terms of reliability, and as such, are purchased by enthusiasts who don't mind rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in, rather than by people who couldn't tell you the difference between a dipstick and their left elbow.

There's some truth in this, but it seems to my biased eyes to be more a case of people who care about their car from the outset rather than being forced into caring by their shonky car.

I know a bit about Fiat Group quality - I was a shareholder for a while, and continue to follow their progress. I'm not sure about the quality in the Panda of the age you're looking at, although I faintly recall it being positive - Polish-built? Anyway the current generation's factory at Pomigliano d'Arco won the World Class Manufacturing gold award. Audi executives came to visit to see their production line.

Edit: your prospective ones were built in Tychy, Poland, which was also a heavily modernised plant and won WCM Silver. Everything about reliability looks good.

When I say reputation, I don't mean they're actually unreliable, I just mean, when you say "Fiat", most people immediately think of an unreliable Italian car

[dombooth]

Fiats used to have a crap reputation, which everyone has stuck with, sadly.

Fiats generally are very reliable cars now.

FiatForum is an excellent forum for all things Fiat (I'm events staff).
Generally when you go to an owners forum all you see is people moaning about what's broken etc, why? Well who (except enthusiasts) goes on a forum to say how much they love their car and it's so reliable? No one.

Any questions just ask.

Dom

[jont]

[
When I say reputation, I don't mean they're actually unreliable, I just mean, when you say "Fiat", most people immediately think of an unreliable Italian car

People say the same about Lotus. The odds are they haven't actually owned one. If you want small sample sizes to extrapolate out of context, our 20 year old Elan was more reliable than the 3 y/o Skoda Octavia.

[triquet]

Here's interesting thought. Obvious snags like having to have a new / old Corsa, but ....

http://www.motoringresearch.com/car-new ... 0717945988

[TheInsanity1234]

Here's interesting thought. Obvious snags like having to have a new / old Corsa, but ....

http://www.motoringresearch.com/car-new ... 0717945988

I'd love a new Corsa as a first car, but I'm not sure they'd let me in at 17, and certainly not sure that deal would keep going until I'm 18!

[sussex2]

Do you realise how gently you would have to drive to satisfy that black box and keep within the guidelines? Well beyond the capabilities of many people I imagine and in particular novice drivers who depend more on reaction than skill.
I wonder how many people will end up quids in with this scheme - precious few is my guess.
This is a gimmick to sell stocks of cars soon to be superseded by another tin box. The only real way to keep your insurance down in the long run is the hard way; paying properly for it and developing your skills over a period of time.

[TheInsanity1234]

People say the same about Lotus. The odds are they haven't actually owned one. If you want small sample sizes to extrapolate out of context, our 20 year old Elan was more reliable than the 3 y/o Skoda Octavia.

Hahahaha.

Same with us, my mum's Mini that she bought about 20 odd years ago, and was 12 when she bought it, was infinitely more reliable than my mum's Clio, which we owned from brand new, and pretty much fell apart at 6.5 years old

Fiats used to have a crap reputation, which everyone has stuck with, sadly.

Fiats generally are very reliable cars now.

FiatForum is an excellent forum for all things Fiat (I'm events staff).
Generally when you go to an owners forum all you see is people moaning about what's broken etc, why? Well who (except enthusiasts) goes on a forum to say how much they love their car and it's so reliable? No one.

Any questions just ask.

Dom

To be honest, I'd love a car which was a brand that most owners would enjoy owning.

Just looked at prices for a 2007 Ford Focus.

Cheapest non-black-box quote was Privilege again at £2,220 a year.

Harumph.

It seems going for a 5 door option tends to be slightly cheaper than a 3 door.

*Thinks*

[TheInsanity1234]

Do you realise how gently you would have to drive to satisfy that black box and keep within the guidelines? Well beyond the capabilities of many people I imagine and in particular novice drivers who depend more on reaction than skill.
I wonder how many people will end up quids in with this scheme - precious few is my guess.
This is a gimmick to sell stocks of cars soon to be superseded by another tin box. The only real way to keep your insurance down in the long run is the hard way; paying properly for it and developing your skills over a period of time.

This is the reason why I don't want a black box.

I'd love to be able to every now and then put my foot down and have a spot of fun, without being penalised in my insurance.

But not sure about the "gently" bit, as my sister's boyfriend's car is fitted with a black box, and he accelerates madly, but never exceeds the speed limit, and apparently his insurance premium hasn't been increased once.

So, I think it's swings and roundabouts, and depends on what company you go with.

[jont]

So, I think it's swings and roundabouts, and depends on what company you go with.

One of my biggest bugbears about black boxes is that insurance companies don't publish what their thresholds are for "good" vs "bad" driving, or how they decided upon those thresholds.

Mind you, ISTR when martine and Mr Toad were involved with a similar scheme they deliberately removed acceleration from the measurements, it was only braking and steering that could contribute to red flags.