Speed Limits

[Hiijinx]

I've actually found higher speed limits very often make people drive slower - people seem all too happy to speed through 30/40 thinking its an outrage that they have to follow the prat in front with the IAM sticker who is driving within the limit but get to a 50/NSL, they seem to forget where the go pedal is.

I despise roads such as the original post - (we have a similar one here which has been knocked down to a 30) - the size of it do not match the speed limit and very often find myself tailgated and angrily overtaken because it "used to be 40" - therefore I am an idiot to follow it.

I will always remember the taxi driver who took us to Gatwick one year -

20 limit : 30
30 limit : 40
40 limit : 50
NSL DCW : 40 - 50

So eager to zoom through the high residence areas - but on a road which imo is the safest to push the limit, he decides to sit back and dawdle along. I would say it was due to the meter running but the journey was a set price!

I am all for safety - but sadly find lowering speed limits just causes more anger/risks on the road when coming up against one of the few who abide to the rules.

You can reduce all roads to 10mph - there are still going to be accidents due to the lack of road education and responsibility. Speed doesn't kill - idiots do.

[brianhaddon]

I will always remember the taxi driver who took us to Gatwick one year -

20 limit : 30
30 limit : 40
40 limit : 50
NSL DCW : 40 - 50

So eager to zoom through the high residence areas - but on a road which imo is the safest to push the limit, he decides to sit back and dawdle along.

I would say this is not an uncommon phenomena, and not just taxi drivers. I call them slow speeders.
Regards
BRian Haddon

[PeterE]

Yes, the idea that there is a class of driver who always drive at 10 mph over the limit where possible is pretty much entirely a myth.

[foxtrot_mike]

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.332336,-5.125778,3a,75y,61.37h,67.84t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sFKq6xE4zZZUkRUsMCCerDw!2e0

This road about 12 months ago was made a 40mph speed limit and its really frustrating now, the street view i positioned at the point of the ares of the most built up.

[PeterE]

Cheshire East Council have recently been engaged on a wave of speed limit cutting, with a particularly excessive one being a 30 limit on the A535 through the "hamlet" of Jodrell Bank. This was previously all NSL but was then cut to 50 at some time in the mid-2000s. Now it has become a 30 from here and runs through to where the limit used to go up from 50 to NSL here. That NSL is now a 50. Follow it through for yourself on GSV and see if it looks anything like a 30 to you.

[TheInsanity1234]

This strikes a very personal chord with me, as both my parents have been caught speeding on roads with a 30 limit, when it was very clearly safe to travel at higher speeds.

My mum was caught by a speed camera doing 45-ish on a dual carriageway which had a speed limit of 30, but the speed limit sign was obscured by a hedge, and there were no signs of a lower speed limit than 50 anywhere. (I wasn't with her in the car, and I didn't reach the point where I became observant so I haven't a clue where it was.

My dad was caught speeding by a radar gun-toting police officer in an unmarked car at some point along Neath Road leaving Ystradgynlais in Wales, doing 47 mph in a 30 zone.
However, I suspect this is actually a wholly unfair prosecution because of two reasons.
1: The law states that speed cameras must be clearly visible, so presumably a policeman holding a radar gun in an unmarked car could be an infringement of our rights?
2: From the point where you join the road (here: https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=29+Station+Rd,+Ystradgynlais,+Swansea,+Powys+SA9,+United+Kingdom&hl=en&ll=51.776855,-3.757389&spn=0.007475,0.01929&sll=51.776763,-3.757131&sspn=0.007528,0.01929&oq=29+Stat&t=h&geocode=FbANFgMdrKnG_w&hnear=29+Station+Rd,+Ystradgynlais,+Powys,+United+Kingdom&z=16&layer=c&cbll=51.776784,-3.757269&panoid=-nw_OnpP1UGoif8i0qt7Lg&cbp=12,124.24,,0,-6.61) to where the speed limit changes (here: at point B on the route, https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=29+Station+Rd,+Ystradgynlais,+Swansea,+Powys+SA9,+United+Kingdom&daddr=Unknown+road&geocode=%3BFSTYFQMdnrDG_w&sll=51.763292,-3.755908&sspn=0.003738,0.009645&hl=en [that also includes the route, which is 1.1 miles long and is actually two different roads], there are absolutely no speed limit repeater signs whatsoever, despite the whole road seeming that of a 50/NSL road. For short stretches, there are street lights, and you do go through a cluster of small houses with frontages on the road, so that is reasonable, and my dad actually slowed down through that, but after that point, there is no clue that the speed limit is 30.
The other point that has to be mentioned is that when my dad went along the road, apparently he did not catch up to any cars on the road, and there were none in sight, so he couldn't have realised his mistake because there wasn't anyone else around to copy from.
I was not in the car with my dad when he was caught speeding, but I went along the same road with my mum a bit later in the week to inspect it so that we could build a case to appeal against any tickets.
(So far, we have not received a NoIP even though it's been at least 3 weeks since my dad was caught speeding.)
So, it'd be interesting to see what you guys think.
Thanks.

[jont]

So, it'd be interesting to see what you guys think.

You're unlikely to get much in the way of sympathy. However if you think limits are being set inappropriately low, why not write to your MP and challenge why powers to set speed limits have been give to local authorities with nothing in the way of accountability for how limits are set.
The DfT has published various guidelines (such as this) which Local Authorities /should/ follow, but often don't Unfortunately there appears to be no practical appeals process#

[PeterE]

You're unlikely to get much in the way of sympathy. However if you think limits are being set inappropriately low, why not write to your MP and challenge why powers to set speed limits have been give to local authorities with nothing in the way of accountability for how limits are set.

And I wish him luck with that

It could be argued that in a sense a bad system of speed limits consistently applied according to standard and widely publicised criteria would preferable to one that is all over the place and leads to wild variations - not least the common scenario of a high-quality A-road with a 50-limit and tiny NSL country lanes leading off it.

[foxtrot_mike]

Realistically though if a reduced speed limit is already in force are they likely to remove the limit if only one or two people complain.

It seems to me that once a speed limit has been placed then its there for life.

If a limit is proposed the notification will probably be placed on a4 laminated notices placed in the area which drivers, will not see but the locals will so motorists don't appear to get their fair say.

[jont]

You're unlikely to get much in the way of sympathy. However if you think limits are being set inappropriately low, why not write to your MP and challenge why powers to set speed limits have been give to local authorities with nothing in the way of accountability for how limits are set.

And I wish him luck with that

It could be argued that in a sense a bad system of speed limits consistently applied according to standard and widely publicised criteria would preferable to one that is all over the place and leads to wild variations - not least the common scenario of a high-quality A-road with a 50-limit and tiny NSL country lanes leading off it.

We have a set of standard and well publicised criteria - those provided by the DfT. Unfortunately local councils seem incapable of interpreting them consistently, and there's no easily accessible mechanism to contest bad decisions made by inept councillors.

I think there is actually a growing number of motorists who can see the myopia in our current approach to road safety. However until the powers that be think their current approach is bad enough to cost them votes in an election, things aren't going to get any better. If enough people that were pissed off with inappropriate limits actually protested about them (instead of ignored them, then moaned when caught), there would be much greater chance of change.

[TheInsanity1234]

But the thing that makes it doubly irritating is that it happened at the beginning of our holiday in Wales, and my father has never driven along that road before, so he was completely new to it.

[fungus]

It happens, but it's down to poor obsevation. You may be able to claim mitigating circumstances if the speed limit sign was obscured by veggitation and the local authority had failed to keep the sign visible by not cutting back the veggitation, but you would need to provide photographic evidence.

[TheInsanity1234]

It happens, but it's down to poor obsevation. You may be able to claim mitigating circumstances if the speed limit sign was obscured by veggitation and the local authority had failed to keep the sign visible by not cutting back the veggitation, but you would need to provide photographic evidence.

There weren't even any signs, it was all one 30 zone, but it was mostly country roads with clusters of houses here and there, and there weren't any repeater signs. There are street lights, but they're mostly hidden by trees e.t.c with no hope of spotting them at anything faster than walking pace really (I only saw them when I went along the road on Google Streetview later on to double check the lack of presence of 30 signs.)

[vonhosen]

It happens, but it's down to poor obsevation. You may be able to claim mitigating circumstances if the speed limit sign was obscured by veggitation and the local authority had failed to keep the sign visible by not cutting back the veggitation, but you would need to provide photographic evidence.

There weren't even any signs, it was all one 30 zone, but it was mostly country roads with clusters of houses here and there, and there weren't any repeater signs. There are street lights, but they're mostly hidden by trees e.t.c with no hope of spotting them at anything faster than walking pace really (I only saw them when I went along the road on Google Streetview later on to double check the lack of presence of 30 signs.)

That would be if terminal signs were hidden.
There won't be any repeaters. If the street lamps are there you only have repeaters if it's not a 30mph limit.

[TheInsanity1234]

The terminal signs for the 30 zone were on the other side of the sodding village. You'd think with a distance of nearly 1 and a half miles, there'd be at least one or two "30" roundels painted on the road.

If I'm right, the use of those aren't prohibited where there are street lights?