New penalties?

[GJD]

Can I presume that most on here would welcome an educational alternative to plain punishment and one that allows drivers an opportunity to see their driving in a different light?

I enjoyed my day and a half of NDIS course. And it led directly to me joining my local RoSPA group.

[Ralge]

Can I presume that most on here would welcome an educational alternative to plain punishment and one that allows drivers an opportunity to see their driving in a different light?

I welcome education, I just don't think enforcement of often inappropriately low speed limits is a good way to select people for it.

Courses other than speed courses have been on offer for a while and more are coming on-stream.
The added facility of handing out a FPN for a wider range of offences will, no doubt, add to the numbers being put on courses and the %share of drivers going on speed courses as a result will fall.
"Often inappropriately low speed limits" is an entirely different and well-worn argument and I've lost the will to live as far as that is concerned, so I'll not take the bait!

[7db]

Careless is quite a subjective offence, which is I guess why it has resisted getting FPNs for so long. It also takes quite a bit of time to prove out and get magistrates to give the nod on. I guess that's what plod are saying -- not worth their time to prosecute, so only cases which result in smashes get prosecuted.

That produces a sort of balance - the embuggerance of prosecution vs being able to punish. After all, look at the number of S59 PRA warnings issued without S3 RTA prosecutions to go along with them.

My reading of the law and experience suggests to me that nearly every drive in the UK passes the test for carelessness at some point. So it's just down to the whim of the officer as to whether one should have a ticket now it's nice and easy. And I'm guessing it's not just the highly trained Traffic officers who get to dish them out, but also any constable with a pen and a book of tickets.

[michael769]

And I'm guessing it's not just the highly trained Traffic officers who get to dish them out, but also any constable with a pen and a book of tickets.

I cannot speak for all forces but IMBY only the RPUs and a handful of traffic trained officers can issue tickets at present and I don't see that changing. On the rare occasions a "general purpose" (for want of a better term) constable is annoyed enough to bother to pull a motorist the most they can do is a bit of finger wagging.

[GJD]

And I'm guessing it's not just the highly trained Traffic officers who get to dish them out, but also any constable with a pen and a book of tickets.

That was a concern of mine too when I first heard about this idea (the idea's been around for a while hasn't it?)

Careless driving is, as you say, subjective and widespread. And so it makes some sense to me that you'd only want the subject matter experts - the people whose training, knowledge and experience in this area best equips them to identify the behaviours that most need tackling and, importantly, instances that would be likely to result in a conviction if it went to court - in a position to dish out such tickets. I'm not sure simply being a police officer qualifies for that.

I don't know if, when such a power is created, there is a way it can be given only to a subset of officers, but as michael769 suggested a police force could always choose to restrict itself with its own policy. I spoke to a traffic officer in my local force about this and he thought that if this did come in it would only be traffic police using it in our force. That was some time ago (and his personal impression, not the official voice off force policy) and I don't know if it's actually the case.

[MGF]

I think it is naive to think that only some Police Officers can understand what constitutes a S3 offence. When a S3 case gets to Court it is not experts in driving. The vast majority of Police Officers should be quite capable of identifying the offence as well as understanding policy and standards for issuing tickets.

When S59 was introduced the Police did not need extra resources to issue them and I doubt they will for S3 FPNs.

[GJD]

I think it is naive to think that only some Police Officers can understand what constitutes a S3 offence. When a S3 case gets to Court it is not experts in driving.

Really? I wouldn't suggest the officers need to be experts in driving. What I was getting as was officers who are specialists in this area of the law. For the same reason that if I was going to court charged with careless driving I'd expect better results if I looked for legal advice from a lawyer who was a specialist in the field.

[Russ_H]

Can I presume that most on here would welcome an educational alternative to plain punishment and one that allows drivers an opportunity to see their driving in a different light?

I enjoyed my day and a half of NDIS course. And it led directly to me joining my local RoSPA group.

The NDIS course has now been replaced by the shorter NDAC course. Here is a link:

http://www.driver-improvement.co.uk/index.php/home/driver-alertness-course

[WhoseGeneration]

I wasn't aware of "inappropriate speed" being an offence at the moment. Presumably if it's introduced we can get rid of any speed limits as this will cover the requirement for those

What entered my mind was that, perhaps, we might find some Officers considering "highly positive" acceleration up to any limit as "inappropriate speed".
Easy way to hit targets.