Looking, at light controlled pedestrian crossings.

[Silk]

In my experience it's a problem which goes along with a certain type of urban culture. Certainly it is true in many parts of London, Nottingham, Birmongham and Coventry (so 'a city thing perhaps); some road types encourage it, usually those which emphasise traffic flow over local environment (an unfortunate tendency in most UK traffic management schemes) particularly when combined with high volumes of traffic (might is right).

I've driven regularly in all of the cities mentioned and a good few others, and it's not something I've noticed. In fact, I rarely see a motorist disobey a traffic signal or direction sign.

Cyclists, on the other hand...

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

Someone had to drag cyclists in

Lights are legal instructions mandated by law. Not stopping at a red light, any red light, is an offence. Motorists should be aware of that and be prepared to take the legal and, at worst, life-altering consequences of not so doing. Silk, red-light jumping is endemic, not just in cities.

I personally feel there are too many types of pedestrian crossing now and that they should be rationalised. I was out with someone recently studying to be an Advanced Tutor for RoADAR and he didn't know the difference in light sequence between a Pelican and a Puffin - what chance does the rest of the motoring public have?

[lordgrover]

I'd not even heard of a puffin until 3-in-a-car last Sunday.

[Ralge]

How about a Pegasus?

And then around here, there are crossings that are puffin, Pegasus and toucan crossings all at the same time.

[Ralge]

Someone had to drag cyclists in

Lights are legal instructions mandated by law. Not stopping at a red light, any red light, is an offence. Motorists should be aware of that and be prepared to take the legal and, at worst, life-altering consequences of not so doing. Silk, red-light jumping is endemic, not just in cities.

I personally feel there are too many types of pedestrian crossing now and that they should be rationalised. I was out with someone recently studying to be an Advanced Tutor for RoADAR and he didn't know the difference in light sequence between a Pelican and a Puffin - what chance does the rest of the motoring public have?

The differences between the different types are significant but not significant enough to cause too many road users an issue.
What's involved in becoming an Advanced Tutor?

[revian]

No, the problem is that many drivers take no notice of pedestrians waiting to cross the road, believing that their (the driver's) right to unimpeded rapid progress trumps the pedestrians right to get safely to their destination on the other side. ...

Apologies for selective quoting.

Is this something local to you or maybe inner cities? Is it really widespread?
I've not noticed this behaviour out in the 'burbs of Bristol and Bath.

Round here Amber is often a waste of time. It seems to mean 'carry on, it's not red yet'

Ian

[fungus]

Round here Amber is often a waste of time. It seems to mean 'carry on, it's not red yet'

I think that happens everywhere. Most drivers do not know the meaning of amber. Quote from Know your traffic signs, " Amber means stop. You may only go on if you have already crossed the line, or are so close that to stop could cause an accident." Therefore the mirrors should always be checked on approach to a green traffic light in order to assess the position of the following vehicle, a decision can then be made as to whether to stop or go through on amber.

[7db]

How about a Pegasus?

Panda crossing?

[fungus]

No, the problem is that many drivers take no notice of pedestrians waiting to cross the road, believing that their (the driver's) right to unimpeded rapid progress trumps the pedestrians right to get safely to their destination on the other side. This has lead to such innovation as zebra crossings

I agree that courtesy towards pedestrian should be excercised, but there is also the problem of misplaced courtesy, where a driver just stops and waves a pedestrian across the road. This is dangerous if the driver has not checked their mirrors and assessed the situation around them. What if a driver stops, waves a pedestrian across just as the local hooligan on his ped comes tearing up the road not paying attention and overtakes at that moment? As advanced drivers, I would hope that we would not invite a pedestrian, or other road user for that matter, without checking that there is no danger. But does your average driver do this? Possibly not. It is for that reason that the DSA advise drivers not to invite pedestrians to cross.

[Silk]

Lights are legal instructions mandated by law. Not stopping at a red light, any red light, is an offence. Motorists should be aware of that and be prepared to take the legal and, at worst, life-altering consequences of not so doing. Silk, red-light jumping is endemic, not just in cities.

Well, red-light jumping by motorists is not the endemic in my experience, of which I have more than most (even if it isn't necessarily matched by ability). Now if you'd substituted motorists for cyclists in the above paragraph, you would have a point.

[GJD]

Someone had to drag cyclists in

...

Silk, red-light jumping is endemic, not just in cities.

Not that I'm too keen on categorising people as 'car drivers' or 'cyclists', but...

I agree. I find it's very common to see car drivers jumping red lights. As the light changes from green I often see a few more people drive through on amber and shortly into red when they could have stopped safely. And at the other end of the phase, when the crossing traffic has stopped but their own light is still red I often see people moving off without waiting for their light to change.

The stereotypical image of a cyclist and a red light is different. It's not so much taking liberties with the start and end of the red phase as proceeding straight through the middle of the red phase as if it weren't there. That's not something I see car drivers doing very often at all.

I'm not too keen on tarring people with stereotypes either.

[TR4ffic]

...I find it's very common to see car drivers jumping red lights. As the light changes from green I often see a few more people drive through on amber and shortly into red when they could have stopped safely. And at the other end of the phase, when the crossing traffic has stopped but their own light is still red I often see people moving off without waiting for their light to change.

IMO this is becoming more prevalent and could justify a specific road safety campaign ...and some enforcement might help..! Nowadays, if you're going to stop at an amber you need to be very clear about what's potentially going to happen behind because you can bet your bottom dollar that the driver behind will see the amber and accelerate...

The stereotypical image of a cyclist and a red light is different. It's not so much taking liberties with the start and end of the red phase as proceeding straight through the middle of the red phase as if it weren't there. That's not something I see car drivers doing very often at all.

Having spent some time working in Cambridge and getting about the majority of the time as a pedestrian, you take your life in your hands if you set off at a crossing with the 'green man' in your favour without checking to your right that a cyclist isn't going run the red light... and God help you if you remonstrate with them..!

That's another problem across the board - few people are willing to show a bit of contrition when blatantly doing soming wrong and getting caught out. Don't get me started...

[TripleS]

...I find it's very common to see car drivers jumping red lights. As the light changes from green I often see a few more people drive through on amber and shortly into red when they could have stopped safely. And at the other end of the phase, when the crossing traffic has stopped but their own light is still red I often see people moving off without waiting for their light to change.

IMO this is becoming more prevalent and could justify a specific road safety campain ...and some enforcement might help..! Nowadays, if you're going to stop at an amber you need to be very clear about what's potentially going to happen behind because you can bet your bottom dollar that the driver behind will see the amber and accelerate...

The stereotypical image of a cyclist and a red light is different. It's not so much taking liberties with the start and end of the red phase as proceeding straight through the middle of the red phase as if it weren't there. That's not something I see car drivers doing very often at all.

Having spent some time working in Cambridge and getting about the majority of the time as a pedestrian, you take your life in your hands if you set off at a crossing with the 'green man' in your favour without checking to your right that a cyclist isn't going run the red light... and God help you if you remonstrate with them..!

That's another problem across the board - few people are willing to show a bit of contrition when blatantly doing something wrong and getting caught out. Don't get me started...

These days, when I'm approaching traffic lights at green, I'm becoming much more wary of what is going on behind me. It's proving to be a useful little prompt to improve my (not especially good) usage of mirrors.

[Ancient]

Someone had to drag cyclists in

Lights are legal instructions mandated by law. Not stopping at a red light, any red light, is an offence. Motorists should be aware of that and be prepared to take the legal and, at worst, life-altering consequences of not so doing. Silk, red-light jumping is endemic, not just in cities.

I personally feel there are too many types of pedestrian crossing now and that they should be rationalised. I was out with someone recently studying to be an Advanced Tutor for RoADAR and he didn't know the difference in light sequence between a Pelican and a Puffin - what chance does the rest of the motoring public have?

Indeed, it is so predictable how they bite!
Whenever the point is raised of motorists RLJing, up pops 'But cyclists are worse!'. When the little kid caught misbehaving in the playground replies "But he does it worse than me mister" this behaviour is seen in its pathetically childish nature; that it is used so often by drivers says a lot about a proportion of the UK driving population.
FWIW a TfL survey shows that 16% of cyclists RLJ (2009). I don't have a survey handy showing the proportion of drivers who do so, but since most adult cyclists are also drivers (coming from the same population, with the same training and behavioural tendencies) I suspect the proportions are similar. I wonder whether 84% of drivers habitually obey speed limits (both are absolute offences).

[Silk]

Indeed, it is so predictable how they bite!
Whenever the point is raised of motorists RLJing, up pops 'But cyclists are worse!'. When the little kid caught misbehaving in the playground replies "But he does it worse than me mister" this behaviour is seen in its pathetically childish nature; that it is used so often by drivers says a lot about a proportion of the UK driving population.

In case you haven't noticed, the "D" in aduk stands for "Driving", not "Cycling". Although you wouldn't think so sometimes. It's obvious to anyone who has their eyes open whilst driving that cyclists tend to ignore red lights more often than not. In contrast, compliance by drivers is generally high.

FWIW a TfL survey shows that 16% of cyclists RLJ (2009).

Even if you accept that statistic, and I believe it to be on the low side, it's nothing to be proud of.

I don't have a survey handy showing the proportion of drivers who do so, but since most adult cyclists are also drivers (coming from the same population, with the same training and behavioural tendencies) I suspect the proportions are similar.

I suspect that the worst offenders are the ones who don't drive and, of those that do, they will be aware that it's much easier to prosecute a driver than a cyclist and, therefore, they're less likely to do so in a car. I doubt very much that the incidence of red-light jumping in cars is anywhere near that of cyclists.

I wonder whether 84% of drivers habitually obey speed limits (both are absolute offences).

I would argue that the risk of collision due to non-compliance with a red-light is much higher than for non-compliance with a speed limit.