Who do you trust to fix your car?

[jonquirk]

I think one problem that car makers and their dealers face is that the development cycle for cars is typically much longer than for computers and electronics. By the time a car maker has incorporated any particular technology into their vehicles and trained the dealer network it is likely to have been superseded by the next iteration and early on the dealers may still not be up to speed.

A case in point: my Mondeo. The list of phones Ford said it supported was woefully out of date. At least I could get the firmware inn the Parrot kit I had in my previous car updated to keep up with changes in the way Nokia implemented Bluetooth.

[Silk]

Who do you trust to fix your car, local independent garage or main dealer?

For me, these days, it's all about the stamp in the book for the all important Main Dealer FSH. My suspicion that they don't do much more than pop the bonnet and spray a some WD40 around the engine bay is largely immaterial.

I usually sell my cars on before the warranty/maintenance contract runs out, so there's no advantage in not going to the main dealer if something breaks.

Although I'm sure there are lots of independents out there who will do a better job and for less money, there are still a lot of cowboys and even if the main dealer isn't the best, they're unlikely to be the worst, IMO.

[trashbat]

I think one problem that car makers and their dealers face is that the development cycle for cars is typically much longer than for computers and electronics. By the time a car maker has incorporated any particular technology into their vehicles and trained the dealer network it is likely to have been superseded by the next iteration and early on the dealers may still not be up to speed.

Yes and no, IMO. Most car systems are lightly disguised off-the-shelf bits of kit from other manufacturers, so the Bluetooth in your Mondeo will probably have very little to do with Ford other than the integration and support. It's not that far from something like Android; Google produce a core update but it can be a year or more before a lightly mangled version makes it to unbranded Samsung phones, and even longer before operators like Vodafone release what's essentially the same thing to their customers.

The car development cycle might not be as long as you think either - Fiat recently claimed 24-48 months from initial design to production.

[jont]

As for the original question - generally trusted specialist independent (assuming you can find one!). The only car we've owned new enough to worry about warranty required an engine replacement within 10 miles of its only service at a main dealer. Call me cynical, but that's remarkably coincidental
I'm not saying independents don't get it wrong either - the measure of customer service is always what someone does to sort it out after they have problems. I've experienced poor service at one very respected Lotus specialist, and heard of problems at a couple of others.

The other extreme in good customer service was the specialist I continued to use with the Elise - often going out of his way to be helpful including doing an odd job on a Sunday. However he made a rod for his own back - he's so good (and cheap) that he's often got a waiting list of a few weeks to get a car booked in, and pretty much every time he's taken on additional help he's then had to let them go as it isn't up to his own standards.

And like some of the earlier posts, I'd much rather have less electronics in a car. It might be reasonable that water in the door causes problems for the windows/locking, but it shouldn't cause the dash to pack up (bloody CANbus. And yes Skoda, I'm looking at you again ).

[Gareth]

A case in point: my Mondeo. The list of phones Ford said it supported was woefully out of date.

While not disagreeing with the rest of the post, this is what happens for fashion accessories.

[Slink_Pink]

For my previous car (Toyota) I found the quality of service generally to be high from the main dealers but there was a huge difference in the "customer experience" to be had at different locations.

With my current car (Citroen) I have used a couple of different main dealer garages. My currently most convenient one (10 mins drive/30 mins walk from work) is absolutely awful.
[rant]
Every time the car has been in for some reason or another it's been a bad experience - it always takes substantially longer than stated, they never have courtesy cars or anyone to give me a lift to work (despite being promised this), on three occasions they've failed to order items I've requested, they don't remember to stamp the service book until I stand over and watch them do it and (my personal favourite) having completed what turned out to be a pointless 2-hr diagnostic exercise, they managed to loose the car key for 3 days. Needless to say, I need to find a new garage!
[/rant]

I do, however, have a very good local tyre place who are very cheap, helpful and accommodating. Once when going for alignment they noticed that my brake pads needed replacing, so they kindly said that there was no point aligning now as it would be affected when the pads were placed, so just pop back when this was done. Saved a few quid and I have recommended them to many people (anyone in Glasgow feel free to PM for the details). I wish I could find a local garage with the same level of service but I don't know where to start looking.

[jont]

I do, however, have a very good local tyre place who are very cheap, helpful and accommodating. Once when going for alignment they noticed that my brake pads needed replacing, so they kindly said that there was no point aligning now as it would be affected when the pads were placed, so just pop back when this was done.

er, what? Brake pads (and indeed discs) should have naff all to do with alignment.

[sussex2]

I do, however, have a very good local tyre place who are very cheap, helpful and accommodating. Once when going for alignment they noticed that my brake pads needed replacing, so they kindly said that there was no point aligning now as it would be affected when the pads were placed, so just pop back when this was done.

er, what? Brake pads (and indeed discs) should have naff all to do with alignment.

That's what I thought!
On the subject of alignment some people don't realise that many modern cars need aligning on all four wheels as each can be adjusted.
The only way to to this properly is via the computer method when the angle and dangle of all four wheels are taken into account.
The only local people I trust to do this are: http://www.dtstyres.co.uk/
It worked wonders on our MX5 which now handles the way it is intended to do. I've been told that a fair few cars come out of the factory with the wrong settings!

I've had good and bad service from both main and independent garages but prefer to use someone local and build a relationship up with them.

Some people are not aware that it is no longer necessary to have a new car serviced by a main dealer and that this does not affect the guarantee; at least that is what I understand.

[sussex2]

Whatever DTS in Worthing did to our MX5 it worked! I was disappointed when I first bought the car which was then 10 years old but am now much more happy. The handling is much more sharp and predictable.
The inevitable and ever present rust has been superbly fixed by http://www.themx5restorer.co.uk/ including the naughty hidden chassis rails.
We are not scared to drive it in the winter now and frankly wouldn't have the thing if we couldn't. A bright winter day and quiet ('ish) roads is what the car was made for.

[sussex2]

'Actually I'm part of that sub-industry so I ought to keep my gob shut'

Keeping my gob shut is not something I'm noted for so am always prepared to listen to people of a similar vein

[michael769]

Actually, the vast majority of vehicles can't be aligned on all four wheels with any degree of accuracy. I find few garages are prepared to unbolt the whole of a rear torsion beam axle and try and bolt it back together to solve a few mm of toe problems.

Indeed for most contemporary mainstream vehicles the manufacturers intent is that only the front toe setting can be adjusted, with all other settings being factory set and requiring replacement of components to correct alignment. Though as you say a skilled technician can make some other adjustments by judicious modification of mountings, many garages will not have anyone with the knowledge, skill and confidence to do it even if they have the measuring kit (and a cynic might take the view there is more revenue in component replacement).

The ability to adjust all 4 wheels (via manufacturer supplied adjusters) is limited to certain high performance vehicles. (often for homologation purposes).

[trashbat]

How contemporary? Certainly mine can have everything easily set except rear camber.

[Slink_Pink]

I do, however, have a very good local tyre place who are very cheap, helpful and accommodating. Once when going for alignment they noticed that my brake pads needed replacing, so they kindly said that there was no point aligning now as it would be affected when the pads were placed, so just pop back when this was done.

er, what? Brake pads (and indeed discs) should have naff all to do with alignment.

I'd assumed that clunky mechanics might upset the refinement of an alignment setting - shows you how much I know about car mechanics! In any case, the advice was offered in the right spirit.

[michael769]

How contemporary? Certainly mine can have everything easily set except rear camber.

It was something that developed during the 1980s IIRC the Mk3 Escort was "fully adjustable" (for want of a better term) whilst the Mk1 Astra was not. But as the decade went on things moved towards not being adjustable.

What car do you have?

I'd assumed that clunky mechanics might upset the refinement of an alignment setting - shows you how much I know about car mechanics! In any case, the advice was offered in the right spirit.

I have certainly had my car's tracking knocked off by heavy handed repairs. I recall getting one back from a dealer after a pad change and they had somehow knocked the steering wheel off center, and then confidently told me that it was normal for a car of that age and could only be rectified with a new rack.

I took the local backstreet garage 5 minutes to straighten it.

But to be honest I'd worry about any garage that said they would need a realign after a brake change, it really should not be necessary and I remain mystified to this day how that dealer managed to make the mess they did.

[trashbat]

How contemporary? Certainly mine can have everything easily set except rear camber.

It was something that developed during the 1980s IIRC the Mk3 Escort was "fully adjustable" (for want of a better term) whilst the Mk1 Astra was not. But as the decade went on things moved towards not being adjustable.

What car do you have?

Alfa 156 - 2005 but first introduced in 1998. As far as I know from AlfaOwner, all modern Alfas (159, Giulietta) are similarly adjustable, but I might be wrong.

Independent rear suspension, and double wishbone front.