What frightens new Members away?

[sussex2]

But FWIW, most of the discussions we have are somewhat "theoretical" and must be quite impenetrable for someone who has probably never even heard of Roadcraft/HTBABD let alone read it.

Yes, a lot of it does come across as quite highbrow. Maybe that's inevitable, but it must put a lot of people off.

I would also say this forum has, in general, a rather earnest tone and there is very little of the leavening of humour and lightheartedness that you often find in other forums.

Yes it is highbrow but then it has to be as it is dealing with a technical subject which some people spend hundreds of hours fine tuning and studying.
I'd rather that than have it dumbed down too much.

[revian]

Please put @ernest and then will know who you are talking about...

[sussex2]

Idea?
Possibly the thickness of the latest version of Roadcraft?
The thing has morphed into War and Peace perhaps?
My old original one (Blue with black on cover and a quarter the size of the latest) gave you a good base. It was simple and easy to understand.
The latest is a tome you have to plough through.

[TripleS]

But FWIW, most of the discussions we have are somewhat "theoretical" and must be quite impenetrable for someone who has probably never even heard of Roadcraft/HTBABD let alone read it.

Yes, a lot of it does come across as quite highbrow. Maybe that's inevitable, but it must put a lot of people off.

I would also say this forum has, in general, a rather earnest tone and there is very little of the leavening of humour and lightheartedness that you often find in other forums.

Well, Peter, I hope you're not accusing me of taking it too seriously. I don't think you'd make that charge stick.

[TripleS]

Idea?
Possibly the thickness of the latest version of Roadcraft?
The thing has morphed into War and Peace perhaps?
My old original one (Blue with black on cover and a quarter the size of the latest) gave you a good base. It was simple and easy to understand.
The latest is a tome you have to plough through.

I don't have the latest edition of "Roadcraft", but I think the way it has grown between 1960 and 2007 is more readily justified than the huge growth of the Highway Code. To my mind the latter is seriously overweight.

[sussex2]

Idea?
Possibly the thickness of the latest version of Roadcraft?
The thing has morphed into War and Peace perhaps?
My old original one (Blue with black on cover and a quarter the size of the latest) gave you a good base. It was simple and easy to understand.
The latest is a tome you have to plough through.

I don't have the latest edition of "Roadcraft", but I think the way it has grown between 1960 and 2007 is more readily justified than the huge growth of the Highway Code. To my mind the latter is seriously overweight.

I think they've both been on a high calorie low nutrition and bland diet.

[Ralge]

If I didn't have the AD t-shirt, badge etc. what would frighten me/turn off the site and AD. On occasions:
- too cliquy and introspective (how many pages on steering?)
- too self-important
- discussions that are unnecessarily over-technical and irrelevant to most (inside or outside of AD)
- too high-octane and too close to high-performance
- unwelcoming

[waremark]

If I didn't have the AD t-shirt, badge etc. what would frighten me/turn off the site and AD. On occasions:
- too cliquy and introspective (how many pages on steering?)
- too self-important
- discussions that are unnecessarily over-technical and irrelevant to most (inside or outside of AD)
- too high-octane and too close to high-performance
- unwelcoming

Do you think we should have a section which overtly calls itself 'Arcane discussion about advanced techniques'? Then anyone not wanting arcane discussion could avoid it?

On the High Octane bit, the difficulty here is that for some it may be a turn off - for many it is the lack of that aspect which puts them off. There is a current Pistonheads thread 'What next after IAM' where a couple of people are saying they have done IAM and are looking for something 'a bit more exciting'. They are urged to try ADUK days.

[WhoseGeneration]

Thanks, a bit late and I apologise for that, for the replies which have reflected my thoughts on this.
When I came to AD, a long time ago now, my car control was not in doubt but it did provide me with a more important outlook, "Observation, anticipation and planning".
I'm not sure this 'site reinforces or discusses this enough, in terms of those new to AD.

[Ralge]

Thanks, a bit late and I apologise for that, for the replies which have reflected my thoughts on this.
When I came to AD, a long time ago now, my car control was not in doubt but it did provide me with a more important outlook, "Observation, anticipation and planning".
I'm not sure this 'site reinforces or discusses this enough, in terms of those new to AD.

I echo your comments but, maybe, attitude (huge topic), concentration, observation, anticipation (together => awareness and planning), space and time/timing have already been "done" (?)

It is these things that I hope my delegates/trainees pick up from any demo drive I do rather than how I hold the steering wheel. And it is these things that, when developed/improved in any "average" driver, reduce on-road risk.
There's lot of drivers with slack steering postures out there with precious little effect on their outcomes.

[hir]

... but it did provide me with a more important outlook, "Observation, anticipation and planning".
I'm not sure this 'site reinforces or discusses this enough, in terms of those new to AD.

You are absolutely right.

However, unfortunately, the problem is that this is a discussion forum and there's nothing much to discuss about "Observation, anticipation and planning". Some say... it's extremely important, others say, it's crucially important. All we know is there's nothing much that could be said that we wouldn't all agree upon. Which, for some, may, in itself, be a huge turn-off.

I suppose some of us could find it in us to argue over whether it's extremely important or crucially important, of course.

[sussex2]

Thanks, a bit late and I apologise for that, for the replies which have reflected my thoughts on this.
When I came to AD, a long time ago now, my car control was not in doubt but it did provide me with a more important outlook, "Observation, anticipation and planning".
I'm not sure this 'site reinforces or discusses this enough, in terms of those new to AD.

It is IMHO these three things that most people can benefit from. There are so many drivers, probably the majority, who react rather than plan.
By increasing awareness of these things it would then (purely in my own opinion and experience) be more easy to teach the finer points of car control.

[Keithrm]

I learn lots by reading and there's plenty of good reading on this site

[jont]

A 27 page thread on "what steering technique should be taught?" as the first topic in the "Advanced Driving" area is unlikely to make a positive first impression

[Zebedee]

If I didn't have the AD t-shirt, badge etc. what would frighten me/turn off the site and AD. On occasions:
- too cliquy and introspective (how many pages on steering?)
- too self-important
- discussions that are unnecessarily over-technical and irrelevant to most (inside or outside of AD)
- too high-octane and too close to high-performance
- unwelcoming

I agree with all of these ... except for ADUK being too high-octane. As Waremark said, it can be the lack of high-octane that puts off many people from AD. Without the high-performance element, some can find AD a bit boring. Also, doesn't high-octane add fun?

Lack of fun is certainly a turn-off. Fun is good for learning too.