ADUK Archive

Related to my "What frightens new Members away", I don't think this subject is discussed enough.
AD is about driving to the conditions but we rarely mention very adverse conditions and how to drive to them whilst those around us appear not to.
Examples from my experience, torrential rain on unlit Motorways, DCs and SC A roads at night, solid ice on surburban roads with cars parked on both sides.
So, how do others here approach these situations without coming into conflict with drivers who seem not to consider the conditions?

If you can't see where you are going or what's in front I won't drive blindly on following all the other idiots. If I'm causing visible annoyance to following cars by doing so I will pull over and let them go blindly on to their own downfall.

Good post.

It's not just extreme conditions where being slower than some/most is appropriate, it's the more common: closing gaps, close pedestrians/cyclists, sharp bend, humpback bridge, red lights ahead, uncertainty of vehicle in front.

I'm sure some around me think I am a dithering, balding, old git by holding-back sometimes...but hopefully they are reassured when I leave them behind later (and conclude I'm merely a balding old git!)

The more I 'do' advanced driving, the slower (and faster) I get!

gannet wrote:If you can't see where you are going or what's in front I won't drive blindly on following all the other idiots. If I'm causing visible annoyance to following cars by doing so I will pull over and let them go blindly on to their own downfall.

Except, on a Motorway, if already in lane 1, you can't pull over, even if you have an LGV a few feet off your back bumper, because its driver is above the spray and thinks (s)he could go faster as hours are getting low and the traffic office is on the phone demanding to know when they will get to the destination because penalties will apply for a late delivery.

WhoseGeneration wrote:

gannet wrote:If you can't see where you are going or what's in front I won't drive blindly on following all the other idiots. If I'm causing visible annoyance to following cars by doing so I will pull over and let them go blindly on to their own downfall.

Except, on a Motorway, if already in lane 1, you can't pull over, even if you have an LGV a few feet off your back bumper, because its driver is above the spray and thinks (s)he could go faster as hours are getting low and the traffic office is on the phone demanding to know when they will get to the destination because penalties will apply for a late delivery.

Good point, never had that happen but I suppose you could always go off at a junction and then re-join. But why wouldn't they just use Lane 2 ?

martine wrote:Good post.

It's not just extreme conditions where being slower than some/most is appropriate, it's the more common: closing gaps, close pedestrians/cyclists, sharp bend, humpback bridge, red lights ahead, uncertainty of vehicle in front.

I'm sure some around me think I am a dithering, balding, old git by holding-back sometimes...but hopefully they are reassured when I leave them behind later (and conclude I'm merely a balding old git!)

The more I 'do' advanced driving, the slower (and faster) I get!

Like this post even though the third paragraph "dithering, balding, old git" rather accurately describes me.

Your last paragraph is so much at the heart of what advanced driving means to me. The accurate precise use of speed matched to available limits of vision. Manifested in a drive that reflects light and shade creating a smooth, balanced flow and rhythm in harmony with the road, driver and car

One of the things I noticed earlier on in my AD journey was that far better drivers than me (awarded gold standards by one or other of the organisations that have such things) used a much wider range of speeds than I would for a given road. Something I've tried to take in to my own style of driving.

In December I found myself driving across the Peak District one night in extremely thick fog (visibility forcing me down to 20mph or less in places). Worth remembering in similar conditions that the lead car has a tougher job reading the road ahead than the queue behind, so don't be too surprised/worried by a car driving closer than you might like behind. Likewise, if you're in the queue, don't drive up close in a contact position when an overtake isn't conceivable!

WhoseGeneration wrote:Examples from my experience, torrential rain on unlit Motorways, DCs and SC A roads at night, solid ice on surburban roads with cars parked on both sides.

These are rare situations for most people - if they're common for you I want to drive when & where you drive

However, as discussed many times before, speed should decrease with proximity to lateral hazards, even when conditions are benign. That it often doesn't is mainly a failure of imagination.

A snow-covered road, I'm using snow socks, keeping the speed down and keeping as far as possible off the compressed tracks; a 4x4 tears past in the same direction, at least twice my speed: Yes 4WD will get you to that speed, but 4-wheel braking won't stop you!

A blind left hand bend on a narrow road, the side of a house showing over the hedge, it is likely the doors open directly on the road just in the bend; a white van decides I am too slow and overtakes. fortunately nothing is coming the other way, so the driver thinks he is highly skilled and will do that again and again ...

A straight but narrow road, houses ahead on the right, garages opposite, no pavement or separation from the road for either. I ease off and the car behind guns past. Again no-one is actually hurt this time, but I am sure it is unpleasant for those living there to walk onto a race track every time they open their doors, and to cross one between their house and garage.

The stupid driver is not the one who slows down, slowing is not dithering. Dithering is driving at too slow a speed when conditions are clear for a higher speed and is usually associated with carrying the same speed through residential areas IME.
Anyway, I wear a flat cap whilst driving, thus indicating that I'm an old git who needs to slow down where others think it's OK to razz on.

Ancient wrote:A snow-covered road, I'm using snow socks

Snow socks are only good for up to 30 mph. Good quality winter tyres can have such a large grip advantage over normal tyres that 25-30 mph faster isn't unreasonable, and winter tyres really do stop you.

Gareth wrote:

Ancient wrote:A snow-covered road, I'm using snow socks

Snow socks are only good for up to 30 mph. Good quality winter tyres can have such a large grip advantage over normal tyres that 25-30 mph faster isn't unreasonable, and winter tyres really do stop you.

The 4x4 driver was probably on normal tyres - they mostly don't realise grip comes from the tyres, not from the transmission.

jcochrane wrote:The accurate precise use of speed matched to available limits of vision. Manifested in a drive that reflects light and shade creating a smooth, balanced flow and rhythm in harmony with the road, driver and car

Liked the light and shade idea a lot when you mentioned it on a drive.

Carbon Based wrote:

jcochrane wrote:The accurate precise use of speed matched to available limits of vision. Manifested in a drive that reflects light and shade creating a smooth, balanced flow and rhythm in harmony with the road, driver and car

Liked the light and shade idea a lot when you mentioned it on a drive.

It's an idea you get more and more in tune with, the more advanced people you drive with. Really good drivers are very calm people - no need to hurry, especially where there is nothing to gain. Pace appears naturally in the right places, and evaporates just when it's no longer needed. "Ebb and flow" is another good analogy.

I found that when I started on my advanced journey my speed varied far more than it used to before. As others have said, a driver who has taken advanced training slows far more than normal drivers for hazards, matching speed to vision and the probability of the unexpected appearing from blind areas.

Advanced drivers also realise that a speed limit is not a safe speed, unlike most drivers who carry on regardless of hazards.

Gareth wrote:However, as discussed many times before, speed should decrease with proximity to lateral hazards, even when conditions are benign. That it often doesn't is mainly a failure of imagination.

Which I've learnt applies just as much in rural roads, where there's potential for animals to emerge suddenly. Pheasants, especially female pheasants, and deer can be very well camouflaged until they step into the road. On narrow rural roads, I've learnt to adjust my speed according to how well I can see into the undergrowth on the sides of the road.

"Where there's one, there's two" applies to deer too

Animal encounters aren't much mentioned in AD, at least not in my experience. But I expect anyone who's ever lived where deer are common, for example, will drive slower in forests or where there's thick undergrowth by the road.