Wales, and some reflections on driving

[trashbat]

So, I spent Wednesday to Sunday in Wales, based somewhere in Carmarthenshire near Lampeter. As you might imagine, it's a lovely place to drive, with lots of twisty, hilly roads.

I'm working from very limited, anecdotal data, but I noticed a few things:

First, everyone seems to drive quickly. Traffic was light throughout but I overtook maybe three cars on these kinds of roads in the whole trip, and was overtaken more myself. I regularly used the limit point, flexible gears, and all the power the car can give me - and I'm not in a really slow car - but I had all sorts of vehicles catching up and keeping pace. I followed similar too and didn't see anyone getting it wrong.

I guess it's easier to follow than to lead, and maybe they regularly went too fast through hazards, but I couldn't help but wonder if the quality of driving or at least the ability to keep pace was significantly better. Either that or I'm way off the boil. At one point I was in a long line of vehicles that included someone towing a burger van - still doing 60mph. No chance of that in England.

It was also interesting to see what they do about speed limits. Most of the roads you'd consider to be national speed limit are exactly that - the only exception I noticed was one that had signs stating 200ish casualties in the last N years: reduced to 50mph. If it's a big town, it got a 30, but otherwise most populated areas were 40.

Finally, most of the roads in the area had apparently been recently resurfaced - lots of pristine black tarmac, and very few potholes about.

Anyone spend much time there and can elaborate on all this? What about accident rates etc?

[TheInsanity1234]

I go to Wales a few times a year, and I can absolutely confirm everything you've said.
I heard that Wales has the most roadworks per square mile of any country in the UK and Ireland (That might explain all the beautiful road surfaces).
I think the reason why people in Wales drive that much faster is because they're actually more intelligent than your average English driver, as I've not seen any Welsh driver drive unreasonably fast through hazards, and yet back home in Berkshire, people driving too fast along narrow roads is a major problem.
I must say, my observations of Scottish drivers are very similar, they have a standard of driving that is higher than English drivers.
Perhaps it's something to do with the fact they often have to deal with sheep and all sorts of nuisance on the roads, that means when the road is clear, they're more inclined to put their foot down?
(Regarding the trailer thing, once when I was in Wales, my dad was driving at 60-ish along a large rural road (The sort which is wide enough for three-abreast, but only has two lanes, one in each direction, and there was a 4x4 following behind, towing a caravan, and the 4x4 was keeping up, even though my dad wasn't driving very slowly!)

[GHST]

I do a fair bit of work in Wales and havn't found this to be the case,last trip down a couple of weeks ago nice dry sunny day and most people doing 50 on a NSL dual carriageway,went past a car with an IAM sticker in rear window barely doing 60 with nothing but clear empty road ahead. I find peoples driving to be pretty much the same everywhere i go tbh.

[WhoseGeneration]

and maybe they regularly went too fast through hazards

True, also my experience there and on similar roads in New Zealand.
It's local knowledge and that their experience, to date, has not resulted in any unfortunate occurrence.
Both places where a car with monster acceleration and brakes is most useful, point and squirt being the best way, the old "slow in fast out" maxim, so very relevant.
That said, you have to admire, whilst yourself taking care to retain a bit of margin, folks who do actually get on with it, unlike the many ditherers on so many roads in England.

[Silk]

So, I spent Wednesday to Sunday in Wales, based somewhere in Carmarthenshire near Lampeter. As you might imagine, it's a lovely place to drive, with lots of twisty, hilly roads.

I'm working from very limited, anecdotal data, but I noticed a few things:

First, everyone seems to drive quickly. Traffic was light throughout but I overtook maybe three cars on these kinds of roads in the whole trip, and was overtaken more myself. I regularly used the limit point, flexible gears, and all the power the car can give me - and I'm not in a really slow car - but I had all sorts of vehicles catching up and keeping pace. I followed similar too and didn't see anyone getting it wrong.

Anyone spend much time there and can elaborate on all this? What about accident rates etc?

I think you have to remember that, in more remote areas, what we would consider to be fun roads are the main arteries and there is a high level of local knowledge, which is not necessarily a good thing. Knowing a road can help when it comes to knowing what to expect up ahead, but I believe it can also lead to excessive risk-taking - there was nothing coming the last ten times they went too fast around that blind bend, so there's a good chance there won't be this time.

I don't believe it's confined to Wales. It applies to all areas that are away from motorways and fast dual carriageways.

[WhoseGeneration]

The other thing to consider is that 'progress' is variable amongst trained drivers. I was in another depopulated driver playground last month and had the opportunity to do some back-to-back driving with someone else in the same car and over the same relatively empty route. The difference between two drivers, despite using the same performance envelope (I.e. the same maximum g pulled in every direction), was of the order of 15% in terms of average speed.

This needs more detailed explanation.
Perhaps not in General Chat.

[trashbat]

First, everyone seems to drive quickly. Traffic was light throughout but I overtook maybe three cars on these kinds of roads in the whole trip, and was overtaken more myself. I regularly used the limit point, flexible gears, and all the power the car can give me - and I'm not in a really slow car - but I had all sorts of vehicles catching up and keeping pace. I followed similar too and didn't see anyone getting it wrong.

I guess it's easier to follow than to lead, and maybe they regularly went too fast through hazards, but I couldn't help but wonder if the quality of driving or at least the ability to keep pace was significantly better. Either that or I'm way off the boil. At one point I was in a long line of vehicles that included someone towing a burger van - still doing 60mph. No chance of that in England.

Purely a left field thought, and not in any way to be taken as criticism, but have you considered whether your driving style lends itself to being less progressive than it might be? Purely as an e.g. 'deceleration sense' where engine braking is less efficient at improving average speed than the more typical reactive style of a typical driver. Chuck in a bit of local knowledge and its pretty easy to stay with anyone.

The other thing to consider is that 'progress' is variable amongst trained drivers. I was in another depopulated driver playground last month and had the opportunity to do some back-to-back driving with someone else in the same car and over the same relatively empty route. The difference between two drivers, despite using the same performance envelope (I.e. the same maximum g pulled in every direction), was of the order of 15% in terms of average speed.

Probably, on multiple counts; I aim to get the speed on early and then ease off, and I aim to brake smoothly but also only gently and minimally. Braking in advance of an unknown bend also loses more speed than, as you suggest, reactive braking helped by local knowledge.

I can only go so far with it as it's a fool's errand to compare progress between drivers with potentially drastically different values.

[WhoseGeneration]

Probably, on multiple counts; I aim to get the speed on early and then ease off, and I aim to brake smoothly but also only gently and minimally. Braking in advance of an unknown bend also loses more speed than, as you suggest, reactive braking helped by local knowledge.

I can only go so far with it as it's a fool's errand to compare progress between drivers with potentially drastically different values.

If solo, don't be afraid to experiment, within the bounds of safety.
Vision is, of course, paramount, however, use limit point vision to late brake hard, then select a gear for the best acceleration out of the hazard.
Problem is, you'll still probably be behind the locals carrying more corner speed, it is afterall, their racetrack.

[jont]

Wales is lovely. I miss the roads

I'd agree both that the locals tend to drive faster, and also that in general the speed limits are far more sane than England, although I have noticed some 50s creeping in on roads that should really still be NSL.

I wonder if one of the explanations for speed is simply that things are more spread out, so locals have to travel further to get around, and are used to doing so. I've noticed a similar effect in the fens - although relative distances for things (commute, main shopping centres etc) seem to be about twice those when we were in Bristol, time-wise there's actually not much in it, simply because everything around here is far less congested (oh, and the effect of going from a shitty stop-start urban commute to a flowing run is that my average MPG has jumped from around 24 to around 34 )

[revian]

Wales is lovely. I miss the roads

Ah yes If I remember correctly the road around Bala going West to Trawsfyyneth (can't recall the spelling off hand) and returning via the back country route a tad further south...