Car hits roundabout at speed - freak accident

[TheInsanity1234]

Was just going about my daily business on that forum, and noticed this story.

Unbelievable.

The story is here Freak accident.

I looked at the StreetView of the approach to the roundabout (here) and I came up with two possible situations:

If the car hit the roundabout square on (what would've happened if the driver fell asleep), then the car would've launched itself and flown straight over and landed on the carriageway on the other side.

In my head, one possible scenario is that the lady is driving down the hill, and someone has come up behind her, tailgating, flashing lights etc, so the lady panics, and floors it to try and get away, and since she's focused on the events behind her, she wouldn't have realised the roundabout is coming up until it's too late, and when she realises, she tries to brake, but gets the pedals mixed up and floors the accelerator instead, then swerves in the hope that she might be able to make it around the roundabout.

That would explain the increased speed, and the fact the car would've needed to be at an angle facing the car park when it hit the roundabout to launch itself into a somersault like that.

And explains the apparent lack of witnesses, because if there was a following driver, then the following driver wouldn't want to own up to causing death by dangerous driving?

For the second scenario, consider the fact she's going to Dover. Maybe she's late for a ferry, and is speeding down the A20 to make up time, and might be distracted by trying to text someone or find the ferry tickets she needed and didn't realise what was coming up?

Both those scenarios explain how the car could have hit the hump at the angle required to cause it to go over the multi-storey carpark. The fact the car went over the carpark rather than going straight over and landing on the carriageway directly opposite does rule out the possibility that the driver fell asleep or died at the wheel before hitting the roundabout.

[trashbat]

I think you can probably rule out comprehension failure, as it's a fairly straightforward bit of road. I think you can also rule out a wilful act since there's not exactly an predictable outcome to the casual observer. The physics of it are bizarre but what puzzles me is how it's even possible in weekday 9am traffic, seemingly without other parties being involved or maybe even there as witnesses.

Loss of control, e.g. pedal confusion as you say? Maybe, but you would think there'd be some avoiding action. It has happened before.

My guess would be medical episode, e.g. diabetes and blood sugar level induced unconsciousness. I disagree with your assertion about the angle; it'd be easily deflected and could go anywhere.

Through her work, my GF knows of a case where a driver went to overtake a car but unfortunately fell unconscious at that moment due to exactly that, thus failed to ever pull in and drove straight into an oncoming HGV. Tragic, but I should add there were several opportunities to avoid it.

[TheInsanity1234]

But it's just that, if you hit the hump straight on, then there is a high chance of the car just going straight over. I can see that there's a small possibility of the car going somewhere else, but not so that it would be a reasonably predictable outcome.

The way the car appears to have flown, it looks like what's happened is that the driver has swerved in the hope that the car could make it around the roundabout, but hit the hump, and the hump plus the sign combined to make a ramp that lifted the front of the car up, as well as the offside. The weight of the engine would push down the front, and that would explain the propeller motion as it flew through the air.

Also, a chap commented on the article that he did some calculations, and worked out that you'd have to hit the roundabout at a speed higher than 75 mph, which ties in with the gradient towards the roundabout. For a distracted driver, it would easily push the car up to 80-90 mph.

I do hope, for the poor soul, that she suffered a stroke or a heart attack at the wheel, rendering her dead so that she hasn't experienced the terrifying results.
Unfortunately, the article reports that she died due to extensive injuries to her body - a direct result of being flung out of the car as it flew. So that's dashed then.

[martine]

Pretty imaginative speculation there 1234!

http://goo.gl/maps/MVM23

This shows the car park does line-up with almost straight-ahead from the dual-carriageway. I'm sure there will be loads of marks/skids/road surface damage to help the investigators.

Well see.

[martine]

What a sad accident.

From the news photos it looks like the car ended up here...
http://goo.gl/maps/RzKXV

Something like this might have been the trajectory...
http://goo.gl/maps/EHa3J

I hope they do find out the cause as I'm sure the relatives will find it a small comfort.

[fungus]

What a dreadful accident.

The image on Martins first post clearly shows rumble strips for some considerable distance on the A20 approaching the Western Hights Roundabout. I for one would certainly not like to speculate as to the cause.

[jcochrane]

If Martin is correct about the trajectory this seems to be an extraordinary accident. I am amazed by the height the car appears to have gained and the distance covered. I've seen a number of cars fly during my racing career. One at Croft where the the car cleared the armco and landed on the embankment on the other side. A car coming up the hill after Nickerbrook at Oulton Park clearing the armco and crashing into a tree. Also at Oulton two Caterhams touching on the main straight launching one of them into the air rotating backwards to land upside down on top of the armco. Both these last two accidents resulted in the deaths of the drivers and me staying late at the circuit preparing reports on the cars. Despite the speeds involved in none of these accidents did the cars fly for so long or so high. The explanation for this particular accident would be of interest as to just how the car gained so much height. What a tragedy.

[TheInsanity1234]

I think it's very likely that the hump of the roundabout and the sign immediately in front of the entrance to the roundabout both combined to make a ramp that would've helped the car gain so much height.

The other thing is, I've mentioned it before, but this is the quote of a comment on the article:

Being an stats man I've done some calculations

Distance from the roundabout to the upper deck = 60m
Height to upper deck = 8m
Angle of the edge of the roundabout =20 degrees

average car weight 1000kgs (a little light but simplifies the calc)

The car must have hit the roundabout at 75mph to reach the car park.

70mph is the posted speed limit for the road, so in reality the car wasn't doing much over the speed limit.

I would have thought the car would have been going faster, but shows how much energy a car has.

If he's done his maths right, then it would support the possibility that the driver was unconscious at the wheel with her pedal on the throttle, as with a gradual descent, it would be very easy for the car to accelerate up to 80/90.

Pretty imaginative speculation there 1234!

http://goo.gl/maps/MVM23

This shows the car park does line-up with almost straight-ahead from the dual-carriageway. I'm sure there will be loads of marks/skids/road surface damage to help the investigators.

Well see.

Hm, interesting. When you look at it from the street on the approach to the roundabout, it shows the building as being offset to the left.

Something like this might have been the trajectory...
http://goo.gl/maps/EHa3J

I'm not sure, as this picture shows, the car was flying in the direction of the sign:


That must mean the trajectory was more like this:
https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zMbWQVKFN8-c.kD-w-MBJMBH0

[exportmanuk]

Looking at the last post and pictures in the paper,could be the double height chevrons caused enough of a deflection.
I seem to remember that Toyota had a problem with unexpected full acceleration on some cars and ended up issuing a recall?
Not sure of the details vague memory of it being on the TV a quite while ago.

[TheInsanity1234]

Looking at the last post and pictures in the paper,could be the double height chevrons caused enough of a deflection.
I seem to remember that Toyota had a problem with unexpected full acceleration on some cars and ended up issuing a recall?
Not sure of the details vague memory of it being on the TV a quite while ago.

Probably.

The problem only affected some of their 2010/11 batches of cars, and the car the lady was driving was an Toyota Corolla, and I'm sure that you cannot get them in the UK any more. You could get the old models which were probably pre-2000 and definitely wouldn't be newer than 2005.

[TheInsanity1234]

Speaking as someone who used to do this for a living (the investigation bit rather than crashing into parked cars), I'm finding it interesting that none of the posters thus far have moved beyond the idea that this was a terrible mistake or a car fault. There is another potential cause, albeit distasteful, and one I've seen on a number of occasions.

Are you implying the possibility that it was no accident?

Or perhaps, drugs?

[trashbat]

As I said originally, I think that's quite unlikely. The distance travelling to the scene for one, but also there are lots of things you can do with a car that are likely to result in a decisive and obvious outcome, and crashing into a roundabout isn't one of them.

[MGF]

Do people who wish to harm themselves choose a method that has a certain and decisive outcome?

[martine]

Can I suggest we leave this thread here - we have to be conscious someone died in this sad event and out of respect I am going to lock it - unless anyone objects.