Winter tyres - 2014

[waremark]

Remember Silk, you don't have to read it or contribute if it's not of interest to you...

As the weather in the South of the UK is relatively benign for the vast majority of the time, there's no point in spending money on anything other than normal tyres.

Not if you want to stay at home on the few occasions when there is a risk that the weather won't be benign.

Owning winter tyres is not very expensive - it is a matter of using different tyres at different times of year, not of using more tyre in total. Along with the reassurance that I will be able to get in and out of my home in a wider variety of conditions, ownership of winter tyres probably gives me better grip for several months a year.

But we have been here before - Silk and I already knew we disagreed.

[akirk]

I can see both sides of the discussion - what worries me most though is the number of people who I have met who seem to believe that winter tyres suddenly makes their car a cross between a Finnish rally car on studded tyres and a snow plough Having spent a day a few years ago in the snow clearing the local town built on a hill spending 10 hours with the rangie on M&S tyres, there were cars having issues on winter tyres / summer tyres, snow socks / etc. I was amazed at how many drivers told me that they had been sold winter tyres and snow socks as a 'fix-all' solution - winter tyres are simply a different rubber compound meaning they stay softer / more pliable in lower (sub-7) temperatures... they certainly didn't cope with 2 inches of snow on a steep hill...

So, yes, they are better than summer tyres in colder weather - but in extreme weather they may be no better than other options... and we have historically driven in such temperatures without huge issues, so I can understand why some folks don't bother... they are not a panacea for all ills...

Alasdair

[fungus]

Some of the problem is fashion. For years now its been fashionable to fit wide wheels and low profile tyres which are not very good in the snow. A narrower, higher profile tyre has a smaller contact area and digs into the snow, whereas a wider tyre spreads the weight of the car rather like snow shoes. I'm sure someone will give a better and more technical description than I can though.

[discov8]

Its not only the tyre compound, the tread pattern is also very different between my summer and winter tyres. I spend a lot of time in countries where winter tyres are compulsory.

There are more grooves, mostly very narrow, in near parallel to the axle line which I think pump water away, shed slushy snow more easily or grip frozen ground far more than a summer tyre. The mpg is certainly less on the winter tyres.

On frozen ground or compacted snow I've found winter tyres perform brilliantly in comparison.

Often forgotten by the drivers of 4x4s only used on tarmac, two and a half tonnes of vehicle takes a lot of stopping after you've lost ground traction, hence the number you see parked in ditches after snow fall in the SE of England where I'm based.

[Gareth]

winter tyres are simply a different rubber compound meaning they stay softer / more pliable in lower (sub-7) temperatures... they certainly didn't cope with 2 inches of snow on a steep hill...

Besides a very different tread pattern, winter tyres have sipes. From experience, good quality winter (and all-season) tyres can be significantly better performing than cheaper / poorer quality winter tyres. Also, from experience, some can cope with more than two inches of snow on a steep hill.

[akirk]

correct - there is a tread difference - but that is available in non-winter tyres with the M&S tyres (mountain & snow) typically found on 4x4s - however a M&S tyre doesn't by default have the same rubber compound as a winter tyre, I believe that the key difference to call a tyre a winter tyre is the compound - though the tread is also likely to be different...

they should help driving in snow - but I suspect that the driving style might need to also cope - and a driver who thinks that the tyre is a miracle cure might be mistaken! I suspect that we might have a maximum of a couple of days a year where it could be the big difference between being able to drive or not, and I am fortunate in being able to choose whether to go out or not... also for some drivers with only one car it may help that car for a longer period of time - I have a couple of 4x4s add to that sensible driving and I haven't yet had any concerns. At the time of first changing there is a capital cost - even if over time the reduced wear on the summer tyres helps balance it so I can see why for many people it is not seen to be worth while...

Alasdair

[trashbat]

In my experience, they kind of are a miracle cure! I know that's a bit 'watch this!', I do use caution myself, and I don't expect to go leaping snow drifts any time soon, but they are genuinely amazing.

Whether they're practically worthwhile is another matter.

[michael769]

It does! They are basically off road tyres designed for soft ground.

Most road going winter tyres are not true M&S types (which perform really poorly on hard dry surfaces), they are more of a intermediate type.

[akirk]

with the M&S tyres (mountain & snow)

I didn't know M&S sold tyres. Seriously, I always thought it stood for mud and snow.

Happy with that - and makes sense - they were always refered to mountain and snow with folks I dealt with due to the symbol on the side wall

It does! They are basically off road tyres designed for soft ground.

Most road going winter tyres are not true M&S types (which perform really poorly on hard dry surfaces), they are more of a intermediate type.

To be fair a lot of M&S tyres are not true off-road tyres, but an in-between, eg the Pirelli Scorpions I used to stick on the RR - very good and quiet on the road, fab off-road... wouldn't compete with the true off-road tyres, but my general approach to that terrain was to go to the pub instead! They took me over grouse moors in snow and many a shoot with no issues...

Alasdair

[Gromit37]

I had Nokian WR G2 winter tyres on the Caterham. They made a HUGE difference in cold, damp weather and on snow they were amazing.

Last year I had Hankook iCept Evo winter tryres on the Swift, and they seemed to perform well. I kept them on all through the summer too. They seemed fine in all weathers, although I didn't use them in snow.

It might be worth investing in some cheap steel wheels with winter tyres, to make swapping easier and you also get to choose the wheel/tyre size combinations to get within the right overall circumference.

As per the comments above, the rubber compound and sipes are very different to summer tyres, and despite what Silk might argue, they do make a big difference, as the tests run by Autobild et al show.

Now I've got to find some for my car

[jonquirk]

I put winter tyres on my Yaris last year. We didn't really get a proper winter here (in Surrey) but I did have one experience that showed their value: I was about to take a left turn into a side road. The temperature was about 2C; the car in front, a Focus, lost grip and finished up on the wrong side of the road. I made the turn with no problem and stayed on my chosen line.

I will probably be slated for admitting this but in the past I have used a pair of M+S tyres on the drive axle of 2WD pickup trucks with no problems. I knew I was forgoing extra grip for steering and braking by not having them on the front axle as well but the biggest problem they solved was the lack of traction on lightly laden or unladen light commercials.

[Kimosabe]

Sussex Police tested Dunlop Winter tyres on a few of their cars on a permanent, all season basis. They found that there was no increase in wear and fuel consumption or decrease in handling or "performance". So if you see a marked car with a 3" orange spot stuck on the rear windscreen, that'll be a car with Winter tyres.

[TripleS]

with the M&S tyres (mountain & snow)

I didn't know M&S sold tyres. Seriously, I always thought it stood for mud and snow.

When I first used Firestone M & S tyres in the early 1960s, I was told it meant mud and slush. Anyhow we didn't seem to talk about tyre compounds in those days: all we wanted was a good chunky tread pattern that would bite into the snow. They did seem to work fairly well at the time, but I've no doubt that all-season tyres and winter tyres will give far better results these days.

[TripleS]

Time again for one of my favourite topics!

Here we go again...

Never mind that, this is quite timely for me.

I need a new pair of boots for the old Pug 406 front wheels: yes, the front wheels, so don't let's start that 'new tyres should always go on the rear' business again.

The size is 195/65 R15 91H - if I recall correctly, and I want tyres that will give a respectable level of grip, long life, low rolling resistance and quiet running. I'm not looking for anything particularly geared to winter conditions, though if there's an all-season contender that could be of interest. So far as price is concerned, I don't want cheap rubbish, but nor do I feel the need to spend big money on high performance/high quality tyres.

So, do I go shopping online, in which case, where? Then, what about fitting? Did I imagine it or do some of the online suppliers make the arrangements for home fitting, or do I paddle my own canoe on that score?

Bear with me, Steve. I need a bit of help here.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[TripleS]

They took me over grouse moors in snow and many a shoot with no issues...

Alasdair

Well that raises the tone somewhat. Methinks we could do with a bit of that round 'ere sometimes.

Best wishes all,
Dave - country bumpkin (novice level only).