IAM/ROSPA test

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Postby TripleS » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:45 pm


Horse wrote:
TripleS wrote:I'm inclined to feel that any advice that discourages offsiding, even if the offsiding is applied carefully and responsibly, is detracting from the 'advancedness' :) of a drive.


Going back to the late 1980s / early 1990s, a Class 1 (car and bike) trafpol I knew said, when we were talking about view for cornering, that on one of his courses they never crossed the centre line.

IIRC he was trained at Maidstone and Essex.


Oh well, I can't dispute that, but it doesn't sound very advanced to me. It sounds like the rigid application of a rule with no room for judgement; and that seems wrong in my book. It may well be a sound policy for learners and inexperienced drivers, but in due course I'd expect any right-thinking driver to make better use of the available road width, so long as if offers a benefit and can be done safely.
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Postby fungus » Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:07 pm


I get the imprssion that Dorset Police don't condone crossing the centre of the road if there's white line. No white line, no problem if safe. That comes from our senior observer who is a retired Dorset Police class 1.
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Postby Oscarmark » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:31 pm


It is interesting to hear that other Police Force areas have differing rules for their drivers. In the Met if you can gain a visual advantage from crossing the white paint and venturing onto the other side, then you did it.... We did not however cross 'solid white lines' You are putting the car into a position to maximise your view and therefore gather information relevant to your driving plan.
Whilst on commentary we used to say "taking the path of least resistance......"

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Postby GS » Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:05 pm


Oscarmark wrote:I am new to this forum, so forgive me for adding my pennies worth, as an examiner I wAnt the drive to be, amongst other things....

Safe
Systematic
Smooth
Speed, progress, whatever you like to call it.

I prefer 'sparkle' I want to see an associate taking full advantage of the ambient speed limit (if the conditions allow) if we are in a 50mph limit and the road, traffic and weather conditions allow, I want to see a driver doing 50 and not 45mph. As you are leaving a restricted limit and entering a National, I want to see firm acceleration as you cross the line, again if conditions allow. It is after all an Advanced Test!!
Having been examining for over 5 years, the most common issue is 'lack of progress'

Hope that helps?


Hello

If 'lack of progress' is the most common issue, do you fail many drivers purely for this?

Thanks
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Postby Horse » Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:20 pm


GS wrote:
Oscarmark wrote:Speed, progress, whatever you like to call it.

I prefer 'sparkle' I want to see an associate taking full advantage of the ambient speed limit (if the conditions allow) if we are in a 50mph limit and the road, traffic and weather conditions allow, I want to see a driver doing 50 and not 45mph. As you are leaving a restricted limit and entering a National, I want to see firm acceleration as you cross the line, again if conditions allow. It is after all an Advanced Test!! . . . the most common issue is 'lack of progress'


If 'lack of progress' is the most common issue, do you fail many drivers purely for this?


OM: you mention sparkle, but detail progress examples. Do you see the rwo as interlinked?
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Postby Oscarmark » Mon Aug 17, 2015 2:11 pm


Yes I do.... sparkle, speed, progress whatever you want to call it. That extra something that elevates the advanced driver above the rest.
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Postby waremark » Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:10 pm


Surprising quote from an Examiner's feedback in the Passed My Test thread:

" A FIRST is very much achievable, however, I think the Masters would be more so."
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Postby akirk » Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:29 pm


could you not read that two ways?
- that the masters is easier than the F1RST
- more as a badly phrased / remembered version of "A F1RST is very much achievable, however, I think the Masters would be more suitable / appropriate..."

I read it as the latter, but if the former, then interesting...

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Postby IcedKiwi » Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:33 pm


waremark wrote:Surprising quote from an Examiner's feedback in the Passed My Test thread:

" A FIRST is very much achievable, however, I think the Masters would be more so."

I think that was more to do with the conversation we had following the test. I questioned whether there was any point in retaking the test to get a FIRST if I was planning on looking at the Masters. I proposed that it seemed to me from the debrief that my driving was up to a FIRST standard and that retaking the test would be nothing more than a badge collecting exercise.

His comments were I believe meant to mean that the master may be a more appropriate progression rather than the retest due to my feelings of badge collecting vs actually progressing my driving. He was not under the impression that a Masters was better than FIRST.
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Postby Kimosabe » Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:04 am


Well done for passing with a high mark anyway. It's a very good achievement, especially that you did so well with the commentary part.

The F1rst was brought in, IMO, to encourage attainment of it and although I don't know the stats, from the F1rst register on the IAM website, I suspect that the numbers are still low (possibly even roughly the same as they always were) by comparison to those I assume are taking and passing the test. I'm one of those people for whom personal bests feature highly and if the result is an award, fine but awards are not my goal, if you see what I mean? I gained a F1RST and I'm currently aiming at RoSPA Gold but a very high Gold, because that's how I'm wired. It'll still be the same Gold as everyone else gets but for me to know that I did really well, especially in my hobby of driving, means a great deal to me and that, in turn, means as much to those who know me. But that's just me.

On the topic of badge collectors, some might consider me such a person because I always aim very high, even if I don't always succeed in gaining the highest of marks and this curiously reminded me of an anecdote; it just came to mind at 05:30am. :roll: :lol:

My wife's grandfather died aged 104 ish, a couple of years ago and while sorting through his personal effects, we found some certificates and medals. He used to work for Peugeot in France and had medals (it was customary for companies to award medals, watches and engraved carriage clocks for long or outstanding service) for 25, 40 and 50 years of service. He retired on the day of his 50th year at Peugeot aged 65 and he and his wife (died 105 a year later) spent the next 35 years or so travelling the world almost continually, both drawing good pensions and having a whale of a time. Medals. Not many people reach 50yrs with a company and a Bronze, Silver and 4" diameter gold medal (golden handshake) is something to behold. I wear his gold Omega watch almost daily. Now I'm not saying that he deliberately stayed at Peugeot for his entire working life for the sake of a medal and a watch but what I am saying, is that they were and still are worth more than their weights in gold. He also kept his Judo Shodan belt. He began Judo after he retired gained a black belt before he was 70 and practiced into his 80s. We were designed in the same way, to excel where possible, if this is to be considered as excelling.

So now that I drive with a cape and my underwear on the outside :wink: I'm kept in check mentally by the F1rst I once obtained and the Gold I'm aiming for. One day, all of this may only matter to somebody else but right now, as anyone within Advanced Driving circles who has met me will tell you, it matters to me. This is not to say that other marks cause driving sloppiness, just that for me, I carry my 'medals' with pride and always seek to demonstrate the highest standards of driving I can muster at any given time, even if I don't always carry it off. The wife's grandfather was never arrogant, he didn't have such things on display and like you and I, he took a sincere interest in his hobbies. So although you may consider retaking and getting a F1rst to be fairly cosmetic, I think on a personal level, it could mean a lot to you, especially as Masters is in your future plans. That's fail, pass and distinction and because I aspire to be up there with some of the best drivers you'll meet on this forum, passing at IAM Masters is not an option for me (sorry folks, I'll be around for a while longer) though I don't consider others who don't have such grades as lesser mortals.

Enjoy driving well and because it's current for me, buy a copy of Reg Local's book 'advanced and performance driving' as its a refreshing change to Roadcraft.

All the best and I hope this made sense,

Kimosabe
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Postby Kimosabe » Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:43 am


mefoster wrote:
Kimosabe wrote:So although you may consider retaking and getting a F1rst to be fairly cosmetic, I think on a personal level, it could mean a lot to you...


Didn't you have three 2s and one 3 on your test sheet? Don't you want to retake and get a proper "F1rst"? I think, on a personal level, it could mean a lot to you. :)


No, I had two twos and one three (for commentary because it wasn't either taught or expected but I gave one anyway). Moreover, I'm happy with my result.

As I suggest, personal happiness is exactly that and it is that which I encourage anyone to strive for. It would appear that for someone who has just sat their IAM test and nearly missed a F1rst, with perhaps some regret and who has Masters in mind, that encouraging and supporting this would be of benefit to them. Or is that not an acceptable way to go about this, to you ?
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Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:10 am


mefoster wrote:... you speak at length ...

Stop encouraging him FFS! :mrgreen:
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Postby revian » Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:16 am


Edited as my iPad has a will of its own these days... :evil:
Last edited by revian on Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby revian » Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:20 am


Kimosabe wrote

.....watches and engraved carriage clocks for long or outstanding service


I've always felt it an irony to give a retiree a clock at the point that they were going to give up 'clocking on'.

:D
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Postby Kimosabe » Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:01 pm


This isn't my thread, it's a supportive thread for another member.

I still don't see your point and I don't consider your current commentary on my progress and not their's as being constructive, if anything, it's somewhat surprising and incredibly petty. 97/100 and a F1rst three years ago = happy Kimosabe today. I wanted 100%. Discussed it a bit, oh well, learned from it, moved on, doing other things...

As there is no such thing as a perfect drive and because you have far more experience of AD than I do, why not focus your attention on your own abilities, the difficulties you've encountered along the way and perhaps start your own thread about them? Being as historical details are apparently your thing.

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