PCV Drivers Responsibilities - Seat Belt Use

[MiniClubmanEstate]

It is stated that a coach driver is responsible for ensuring that children under 14 years of age wear seat belts, in reality I don't know what I am supposed to do if they don't want to as our nanny state tells children that they can do what they like and that adults telling them what to do are just trying to cause them psychological harm which they can press charges for.
As far as I am aware I do not have to make an announcement before driving the school coach in the morning, there is signage on the coach identifying that seat belts must be worn. On the return run on one of my employers school run a head teacher checks that the children are wearing seat belts before the coach departs.

There is one school contract in particular where seat belts rules are constantly ignored, some children on this run are older than 14 years of age. It is stated that a coach driver is responsible for taking reasonable measures to ensure that seat belts are worn but what I want to know is what I can actually do?
When starting the school run in question I make sure that all children are seated and facing forward, if an announcement was made in any form the children would immediately rebel and subsequently not wear seat belts and constantly run around the coach.
The only actions I take are that when stopped at a set down point I will check to see is the remaining children are seated and I do not move the coach until they are, often they complain and they are simply told that once everybody is seated I will resume driving, This means that they sit down until the coach is moving and continue running around once the coach is moving.
I am not allowed to remove disruptive children from the coach, we are not allowed to revoke passes and I am very busy focusing mainly on driving the coach and so cannot enforce order when the coach is moving.
One evening I contacted the school in question and advised them of the situation onboard the coach, my employer contacted the councils education department and we requested an escort be provided for the run but this was ignored. We also requested that a police community officer visit the school as we were also having problems with items being thrown around the coach but they could not be bothered.

So what am I supposed to do? if this coach gets stopped am I likely to be charged?

[ROG]

So what am I supposed to do? if this coach gets stopped am I likely to be charged?

Not if you make the police force in your area aware of this issue .....

Call in to see your local plod and explain everything and then ask for their advice to be given to you in writing.

If the advice is simply - you are doing all that can reasonably be expected of you - then again, get it in writing

There is one way to stop this but it's a little expensive - get the seatbelts linked to an electronic system that gives a warning to the driver when one is removed - same as in many cars

[MiniClubmanEstate]

There is one way to stop this but it's a little expensive - get the seatbelts linked to an electronic system that gives a warning to the driver when one is removed - same as in many cars

That would mean my employer spending money, something which he will always avoid. The other problem with that is that it does not benefit the driver to know that the children simply remove their seat belts as soon as the coach moves away, we know this already.

I will considder visiting the local police station but unfortunatley they were quite un professional the last time we requested assistance and advice, they believe that as the coach driver I can sit and stare at my interior mirror and ensure that the children are behaving and somehow avoid crashing the coach whilst doing this.
What I might do is go to a neighbouring town and drop into that police station and do as you suggest, get confirmation letter. The police station I will visit is in one of the areas served on the coach service in question.

[ROG]

The other problem with that is that it does not benefit the driver to know that the children simply remove their seat belts as soon as the coach moves away, we know this already.

I assume you mean you know this by experience and not know this by seeing them do it ??

If the latter then I would say - stop the coach as soon as safe to do so

[ExadiNigel]

....The only actions I take are that when stopped at a set down point I will check to see is the remaining children are seated and I do not move the coach until they are, often they complain and they are simply told that once everybody is seated I will resume driving, This means that they sit down until the coach is moving and continue running around once the coach is moving.....

So stop the bus again as soon as they stand up and keep stopping it until they show the required behaviour. If they complain - let them, the solution is in their own hands. Children running around on a moving bus are dangerous - to each other and to the driver!

Nigel

[quintaton]

As a driver, you have several responsibilities; the most important of which is to take all reasonable measures to drive safely and with due consideration. That requires that you concentrate principally on driving. The irony is, that constantly worrying about what apssengers are doing is a distraction, and may well make you guilty of driving without due care.

You tell the kids to belt-up then set off. If they choose to ignore the advice, so be it.

I'm sure that the police are aware of what goes on, and in any event, were the children to travel on public transport they would not be able to wear seat-belts at all.

I suspect that you are worrying too much about the law, which after all, is based on the assumption of the reasonable man rather than the unreasonable child.

Now, "When I were a lad......"

At least you don't have kids hanging off the open rear-platform trying to flick the caps off cyclists, or seeing how far you could lean out when going around right-hand bends. The best was jumping off at 20mph and doing barrel rolls!

Think yourself lucky!

I hope you've been checked out by the police and paid the £64.....can't be too careful with children these days!

[MiniClubmanEstate]

So stop the bus again as soon as they stand up and keep stopping it until they show the required behaviour. If they complain - let them, the solution is in their own hands. Children running around on a moving bus are dangerous - to each other and to the driver!

Nigel

If only it were that simple, There are very few safe stopping places on most of our school runs, inappropriate stopping could contribute to a collision involving other impatient road users and so I am only prepared to stop in areas where I am not compromising the safety of other road users, this means that there are only some bus stops to choose from and I would suggest that the hard shoulder on an NSL dual-carriageway to be a poor judgement.
I am secure in the knowledge that the best course of action for me to ensure safety is to maintain primary focus on driving the coach safely and smoothly, I used to drive service buses with passengers standing which is probably even more hazardous than a few fit children with faster than average reflexes moving around on a coach.
Focusing on passenger activities on a coach means neglecting important information about what is happening around the coach, this is only likely to cause a fatal collision with another road user, but I suppose we would be secure in the knowledge that we did our best to ensure that children were wearing seat belts.

The laws which effect professional drivers in my opinion designed to make the job impossible, If I get charged for perusing safety rather than legality I can live with that, the deaths of other beings caused by taking extreme measures to ensure compliance I cannot.

[ROG]

It's that same old story - balancing legality with safety
As long as safety comes first and other issues have been officially recorded then you have reasonably done all you can

[ExadiNigel]

So stop the bus again as soon as they stand up and keep stopping it until they show the required behaviour. If they complain - let them, the solution is in their own hands. Children running around on a moving bus are dangerous - to each other and to the driver!

Nigel

If only it were that simple, There are very few safe stopping places on most of our school runs, inappropriate stopping could contribute to a collision involving other impatient road users and so I am only prepared to stop in areas where I am not compromising the safety of other road users, this means that there are only some bus stops to choose from and I would suggest that the hard shoulder on an NSL dual-carriageway to be a poor judgement.

Depends on what is going on on the coach to be honest. Once kids are up and running around then YOUR safety is compromised. Once that is the case, what knock-on effects can that have on other road users? I would have thought the hard shoulder on an NSL D/C would be very appropriate. Once the kids realise you are serious about not moving the bus when they are up and running about they will behave.

I am secure in the knowledge that the best course of action for me to ensure safety is to maintain primary focus on driving the coach safely and smoothly, I used to drive service buses with passengers standing which is probably even more hazardous than a few fit children with faster than average reflexes moving around on a coach.

The standing passengers on a service bus are just that, standing, the kids on teh bus are moving around.

Focusing on passenger activities on a coach means neglecting important information about what is happening around the coach, this is only likely to cause a fatal collision with another road user, but I suppose we would be secure in the knowledge that we did our best to ensure that children were wearing seat belts.

You don't need to focus on one or the other, try to find a balance, the passengers can't simply be ignored.

The laws which effect professional drivers in my opinion designed to make the job impossible, If I get charged for perusing safety rather than legality I can live with that, the deaths of other beings caused by taking extreme measures to ensure compliance I cannot.

I wouldn't look to taking extreme measures. Although it must be tempting to take a shotgun on board! It may work but would, perhaps, be a little too extreme

Nigel

[jont]

Once the kids realise you are serious about not moving the bus when they are up and running about they will behave.

Clearly you're not a teacher. Once the kids realise they are in control, the bus won't move again.

[Renny]

It is stated that a coach driver is responsible for ensuring that children under 14 years of age wear seat belts,
<snip>
It is stated that a coach driver is responsible for taking reasonable measures to ensure that seat belts are worn but what I want to know is what I can actually do?
<snip>

One evening I contacted the school in question and advised them of the situation onboard the coach, my employer contacted the councils education department and we requested an escort be provided for the run but this was ignored. We also requested that a police community officer visit the school as we were also having problems with items being thrown around the coach but they could not be bothered.

So what am I supposed to do? if this coach gets stopped am I likely to be charged?

I would say that you and your employer have taken reasonable steps. Other than physically "locking" the belts on (which would be seen as "restraint" and not allowed, unlike wear a seatbelt to restrain you in the event of an accident ), there is little more you can do. If the Education Service (not just the school) has been made aware of the problems and does not take action, then I'd make sure this was recorded and can be produced as evidence if it was needed.

People, including children, need to take personal responsibility and it should not be abdicated to someone who has little or no control (ie the bus driver). Unfortunately the "Nanny State" and "Ambulance Chaser" cultures have resulted in people always looking to blame someone else and not taking their own responsibility. As a result, nobody wants to take any responsibility for running/organising/manufacturing anything for anyone else. Rant over

[ExadiNigel]

Once the kids realise you are serious about not moving the bus when they are up and running about they will behave.

Clearly you're not a teacher. Once the kids realise they are in control, the bus won't move again.

But that's the point, the kids are complaining when the bus isn't moving, they want to get home. By stopping until they've sat down again they aren't winning!

....The only actions I take are that when stopped at a set down point I will check to see is the remaining children are seated and I do not move the coach until they are, often they complain and they are simply told that once everybody is seated I will resume driving, This means that they sit down until the coach is moving and continue running around once the coach is moving.....

No, at the moment I am a T/A rather than a teacher. Should be a teacher in 2 years time!

Nigel

[GJD]

But that's the point, the kids are complaining when the bus isn't moving, they want to get home. By stopping until they've sat down again they aren't winning!

Unless they decide that playing Make the Bus Driver Keep Stopping is more fun than getting home right now?

[ExadiNigel]

But that's the point, the kids are complaining when the bus isn't moving, they want to get home. By stopping until they've sat down again they aren't winning!

Unless they decide that playing Make the Bus Driver Keep Stopping is more fun than getting home right now?

There will always be one. But when kids start arriving home late, parents will become involved which may (or may not) make a difference. But if, as the OP says, the kids don't like waiting for the bus to move, it is a tool that could (or should) be considered.

Nigel

[MGF]

It is stated that a coach driver is responsible for ensuring that children under 14 years of age wear seat belts...

Where is it stated? I wasn't aware of a law requiring under 14 year olds to wear seat-belts in coaches or buses. (As distinct from cars or goods vehicles).

Last I heard it was at consultation stage at EU level.