Overtaking position

[Martin A]

How long do you think it is reasonable to follow with a less than two second gap in preparation for an overtake?

[vonhosen]

Depends

[jont]

Depends

Is there an AD question where that isn't the most accurate and succinct answer?

[7db]

Succinct and accurate. There might be a more useful one.

For me it depends on the road and the reaction of the driver in front, the likelihood of the overtake happening and perhaps the mode of my drive.

I think it's important to realise that whilst following that closely you are having to drive for the lead vehicle and you are already committed to the pass when you can't stop behind him. Overtakes opportunities tend to come in discrete chunks (for example at the starts of straights) and I will be constantly varying my position relative to a target whilst looking for an overtake, perhaps closing through a right-hander or dropping off into a hazard when the pass is definitely not on.

If I think that my driving is starting to affect the driver ahead then I'll consider a different approach. Perhaps dropping off, switching lights off, looking for a simple pass later. Stopping and having a cup of tea, maybe.

I suppose it depends.

[WhoseGeneration]

Depends

Is there an AD question where that isn't the most accurate and succinct answer?

Or to any question in life.
A scientist or philosopher would ask for a more specific question.
Awkward folk that they tend to be.

[Zipper]

I don't like crowding up close just prior to overtaking.
I prefer to hang back so that I can build up speed before actually moving out onto the 'wrong side' of the road while still giving myself the option to duck back in behind if necessary - the less time spent on the wrong side the better.
I'm down here in the Northern Territory so my driving conditions wouldn't be the same as in the UK.
We have road trains up to 55.5 metres long, some are longer (yesterday I passed one with 4 artic-sized trailers and counted 26 axles).
As you can see, it "depends".

[Martin A]

I suppose what I really want to know is if there is any reason not to maintain a close following position all the time if it is safe for a short time?

[WhoseGeneration]

I suppose what I really want to know is if there is any reason not to maintain a close following position all the time if it is safe for a short time?

Sorry to say it but it does depend upon the particular situation and perhaps, what your definition of "a short time" is.
Remembering, always expect the unexpected.
Having said that, I expect most here have, at some time, used a close following position to enable an overtake.
Not recommended if one is a line of vehicles, that not giving you the space to let in the suicidal overtaker from behind. Which I have often had to do, on occasion going ns to help. That overtaker, no doubt, congratulating theirself upon their ability to judge.

[MGF]

I suppose what I really want to know is if there is any reason not to maintain a close following position all the time if it is safe for a short time?

I would say the overtaking position is less safe than the following position and so we try to mitigate much of the risk by being careful when we do it, and of course the less we do it the less chance we have of coming unstuck.

[Gareth]

I prefer to hang back so that I can build up speed before actually moving out onto the 'wrong side' of the road while still giving myself the option to duck back in behind if necessary

I think 7db may have something to say about the trade-offs of such a policy.

the less time spent on the wrong side the better.

but I have a serious issue with this part of your comment.

The 'wrong' side of the road provides enormously better visibility that can be used to make a decision about whether it is safe to overtake. Trying to make the decision from behind the victim is hugely restricting your knowledge about the road ahead, one possible exception being an open bend towards the nearside.

I would suggest that avoiding the 'wrong' side of the road tends to lead to either fewer overtakes or less safe overtakes.

[7db]

I prefer to hang back so that I can build up speed before actually moving out onto the 'wrong side' of the road while still giving myself the option to duck back in behind if necessary

I think 7db may have something to say about the trade-offs of such a policy.

the less time spent on the wrong side the better.

I've got an issue with both parts.

Zipper -- I've driven some of the roads in NT -- and I'm well aware of the death by momentum offered by the road trains! However the idea of accelerating then ducking out at the last minute is misguided, although less misguided than it might be with a road-train overtake.

The important thing is to realise when you are *committed* to the pass. This is the earliest point at which you couldn't stop behind the target vehicle if it suddenly goes for a full braked stop. If you are at the same speed in a following distance, this is around 2s behind, or your reaction time plus a margin. You might be able to pare it down to just reaction time if you have a good view of what might cause him to brake: as little as .75s.

However at increased speeds the distance required to stop is considerably higher so once you are getting a good close you are committed to the pass much earlier.

If you are committed to the pass, then you might as well be offside. That's where you're going to be when he brakes hard, after all. That or up his chuff.

If you are committed to being offside then you might as well get out there and take a look before you are committed to doing so.


Being offside is not dangerous. Hurtling towards the back of a truck is.

[zadocbrown]

I suppose what I really want to know is if there is any reason not to maintain a close following position all the time if it is safe for a short time?

Yes - varying conditions.

My following and overtaking positions are not mathmatically identical in every case. They vary significantly depending on conditions.

What matters is that if you are approaching more closely than usual you should be able to justify this, and that is not to say that everyone will agree with you. The best drivers I have passengered vary considerably in their willingness to follow closely, there are pros and cons to each approach.

[ROG]

How long do you think it is reasonable to follow with a less than two second gap in preparation for an overtake?

For as little time as possible

Think the overtake may be on - close up - is it on? - now either pull out or pull back

[Astraist]

One might also argue that a normal following position allows to accelerate from the moment of your initial steering movement, whereas the closer position requires you to steer, settle in the near lane and than accelerate, like this. Such is the "plan of attack" taught by the Israeli advanced driving schools.

[vonhosen]

One might also argue that a normal following position allows to accelerate from the moment of your initial steering movement, whereas the closer position requires you to steer, settle in the near lane and than accelerate, like this. Such is the "plan of attack" taught by the Israeli advanced driving schools.

From a normal 'follow' position you are always going to need more space between you & the vehicle towards (or loss of vision) than from a 'contact' position. As such you will have to accept that you will not be able to complete overtakes that the vehicle in a 'contact' position can.