Roadcraft on Steering

[Ralge]

I've worked across both "camps" for too long (or maybe not long enough) to be able to define what separates the different "syllabuses" or approaches.
Positioning is one area maybe but what are the others, in your view?

[Zebedee]

1. On the bike, the difference between DSA and IAM/RoSPA positioning is big - notably on left hand bends - because positioning has even more impact on two wheels.

2. The acceptability of 4- versus 2-finger braking is different (i.e. DSA's pedantic insistence of 4-finger braking, even though it can be less safe in certain circumstances).

3. DSA expectation of specific mirror checks and life-savers vs. IAM/RoSPA consider a rear observation.

However, I'm interested and happy to be corrected by any DAS/DIAmond/RPMT bike instructors.

[fungus]

In the car it's position on approach to and entering a left hand bend, just as with a bike, where the DSA state, "do not go out to the white line, it could put you in conflict with oncoming drivers" just as the DSA will not condone straight lining bends and roundabouts even when the driver has checked if it's safe to do so which is something that the IAM or at least some in the IAM encourage. Most in our group do not condone crossing a broken white line to straighten a bend or roundabout, but one of our examiners, an ex Met class 1 doesn't worry about things like that.

As far as steering is concerned, the DSA issued a directive to examiners a couple of years ago that crossing the arms was not to be marked as a fault provided that the steering was controlled. There are some in the IAM who are quite dogmatic that steering must be pull push in all circumstances, and personally, I don't see them changing their stance on this no matter what the new edition of Roadcraft says. They will just see it as dumbing down standards.

[WhoseGeneration]

As far as steering is concerned, the DSA issued a directive to examiners a couple of years ago that crossing the arms was not to be marked as a fault provided that the steering was controlled.

From your experience, how many learner drivers are able to cross arms in a controlled, rather than a confused way?
Unless you've taught them how to use crossed arms of course, which might imply teaching rotational and/or predictive steering?

[fungus]

As far as steering is concerned, the DSA issued a directive to examiners a couple of years ago that crossing the arms was not to be marked as a fault provided that the steering was controlled.

From your experience, how many learner drivers are able to cross arms in a controlled, rather than a confused way?
Unless you've taught them how to use crossed arms of course, which might imply teaching rotational and/or predictive steering?

Few learners are able to to do any method other than a confused scrabble of arm movements in the very early stages, and as pull push is still the recognised method for most purposes, it is this which is taught which most will learn quickly. However, as they gain more experience, it's not unusual for some to sometimes use rotational steering if they need to steer more briskly because they have misjudged the amount of steering needed. By this time, they have far more control over their steering.

[WhoseGeneration]

it's not unusual for some to sometimes use rotational steering if they need to steer more briskly because they have misjudged the amount of steering needed. By this time, they have far more control over their steering.

But, wasn't the whole point of the original introduction of PP that it meant being able to always adjust the required input with ease? Good PP is fluid.

[Ralge]

Although PP is my fall-back training position with any new driver(s) I sit with, if they do "hand over" rotational without knotting arms or slapping the steering on and off I leave them to it.
Otherwise it's 360-degree PP with just two hand movements or it descends into an inefficient six hand movements (a shuffle). Shuffling is the reason so many end up doing hands over rotational - other than the fact that they are copying Mum and Dad without knowing it.

[WhoseGeneration]

Although PP is my fall-back training position with any new driver(s) I sit with, if they do "hand over" rotational without knotting arms or slapping the steering on and off I leave them to it.
Otherwise it's 360-degree PP with just two hand movements or it descends into an inefficient six hand movements (a shuffle). Shuffling is the reason so many end up doing hands over rotational - other than the fact that they are copying Mum and Dad without knowing it.

I'm old and, perhaps, because I've rarely driven anything with slow steering and a big steering wheel I've never used rotational.

Decades ago I read all the books about AD and, when young, adopted the PS way, meaning sometimes, crossed arms but fixed grip.

Then, in later years, I undertook IAM and, happily, adopted PP to satisfy the membership criteria and, honestly, I now mainly use it most of the time. Why wouldn't one? It's all one needs for driving on public roads most of the time.

Ah, I do know why so many don't, it's because they're lazy and why I have to approach any junction with caution, lest another will enter on my side as they use one hand to barely move their steering wheel.

Because of this thread I've been trying out rotational but I'm finding it hard and as for, as I often see others doing, the palm or wrist at 12o'clock, well!

[TripleS]

Steering seems to be one of the subjects that receives an inordinate amount of attention here, and yet I very much doubt if deficiencies in steering methods/styles/techniques leads to much trouble at all for drivers. I expect the steering methods of most drivers would incur serious criticism here, but unless a particular individual is having problems with it, I don't think it's worth a lot of fuss.

As for the palm or wrist at 12 o'clock, no I don't do that; but I do sometimes use palming for returning to the straight ahead position after a tight turn at low speed. As an alternative I sometime let the wheel slip through my fingers as the lock comes off after a tight turn, and I don't regard this an uncontrolled either. The amount of slippage is controlled, rather like a brake disc, though in this case the disc is the steering wheel and my hand is a strangely shaped calliper (or is it caliper?) that doesn't require the periodic replacement of pads. Anyhow it works fine.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[TR4ffic]

As long as the steering performance and the outcome can be classified as "smooth, gradual, unhurried, disciplined, fluent, accurate, safe", for instance, I'm happy.

….The thing is, this driving lark is a continually evolving process, or it should be, so while it's right to keep an eye on the developments, it's no use getting too mesmerised with today's wisdom, because tomorrow's advice will surely be a bit different anyhow. We should each seek to get the best out of it for ourselves as individuals.

Although I’m not new to AD, I am new to this and other AD forums (Haven’t ventured as far as Twitter or Facebook yet..!). I’d not given much conscious thought to my steering style, its evolution or names of the methods I’ve come to employ in my 33 years of driving but, having read this and other threads and after giving it some thought, it goes something along the lines of…

Pull-Push: (What I was taught) Low speed manoeuvring. Tight bends, junctions, mini roundabouts. For speeds up to ~20-25mph and/or where wheel rotation greater than ~180deg is required.

Fixed Grip: Wheel rotation up to 45deg – any speed. I know many will do more and, as we now know, new Roadcraft mentions 90deg but I find >45deg a bit uncomfortable/awkward and therefore not very smooth.

One handed Predictive Steering: For speeds over ~20-25mph, wheel rotation between 45-180deg. Since reading other threads and watching youtube clips, I’ve started taking the pulling hand past 12 o’clock (e.g. To 11 o’clock-ish for a R/H bend). Although I have noticed, as I’m taking the lock off, that I subconsciously raise the non-pulling hand to meet the wheel spoke as it comes round – a bit of PP. I know there are advocates for taking larger chunks of wheel with the pulling hand in PS but, again, I find this a bit uncomfortable/awkward.

Two handed Predictive Steering: Long, high speed bends on motorways and the like – so my hands are at 9-3 when going around the bend.

Hopefully, that doesn’t come out sounding too confused… I would consider my steering consistent, smooth, gradual, unhurried, disciplined, fluent, accurate and safe. Key to achieving all this is setting the correct speed for the bend/manoeuvre.

I haven’t had an observed drive since passing my IAM test (although driving my Dad at any time was as good as – he was an AD instructor with the Police) but I don’t feel it would be necessary to alter my style of steering or revert to PP if I did. Perhaps it’s about time I put that to the test…

[nigelc]

Steering seems to be one of the subjects that receives an inordinate amount of attention here, and yet I very much doubt if deficiencies in steering methods/styles/techniques leads to much trouble at all for drivers. I expect the steering methods of most drivers would incur serious criticism here, but unless a particular individual is having problems with it, I don't think it's worth a lot of fuss.

As for the palm or wrist at 12 o'clock, no I don't do that; but I do sometimes use palming for returning to the straight ahead position after a tight turn at low speed. As an alternative I sometime let the wheel slip through my fingers as the lock comes off after a tight turn, and I don't regard this an uncontrolled either. The amount of slippage is controlled, rather like a brake disc, though in this case the disc is the steering wheel and my hand is a strangely shaped calliper (or is it caliper?) that doesn't require the periodic replacement of pads. Anyhow it works fine.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Totally agree. I've tried fixed grip, PS, PP et al and am still experimenting. I'm finding which I feel most comfortable with in each situation and have found that all have their place. I've been doing it long enough now that planning for the road ahead I instinctively adopt what I feel I have best control with and have to make a conscious effort to try an alternative.

For slow manoeuvering it's freestyle palm, let the wheel slip in a controlled way or whatever feels right at the time. Attemping PP while turning to look out of the back window is total nonsense. So long as it's slick and impresses the passengers or onlookers when reversing into a tight space in one easy move

[nigelc]

… I would consider my steering consistent, smooth, gradual, unhurried, disciplined, fluent, accurate and safe. Key to achieving all this is setting the correct speed for the bend/manoeuvre.

I think that really is the key. As I wrote above each method has it's own place. I often think that trying to teach just one general method is a bit of a cop out.

[TR4ffic]

I would hope/trust that Associates are picked up for/actively discouraged from using hand-over-hand ('knitting') and crossing the arm over the wheel to grip the inside of the wheel rim (Not sure what that's called...). I view these as bad habits. Am I correct in thinking that they would be picked up for this?

IMO, if an Associate’s steering is poor (hurried, jerky, inaccurate, unsafe, etc) I would imagine that getting back to basics with PP, with Fixed Grip up to an agreed angle, would be a good starting point and allow other techniques to come in later. Reasonable?

Personally, I wouldn’t like to see anyone letting the wheel slip through their hands but each to their own…

[TripleS]

I would hope/trust that Associates are picked up for/actively discouraged from using hand-over-hand ('knitting') and crossing the arm over the wheel to grip the inside of the wheel rim (Not sure what that's called...). I view these as bad habits. Am I correct in thinking that they would be picked up for this?

IMO, if an Associate’s steering is poor (hurried, jerky, inaccurate, unsafe, etc) I would imagine that getting back to basics with PP, with Fixed Grip up to an agreed angle, would be a good starting point and allow other techniques to come in later. Reasonable?

Personally, I wouldn’t like to see anyone letting the wheel slip through their hands but each to their own…

Why not? It doesn't surprise me to find AD people disapproving of it, but if it is done with care I find it works perfectly satisfactorily

On my first drive with an IAM Observer I got picked up for the way I held the steering wheel, and the position of my hands. I had been trying to be reasonably well behaved, holding the wheel at somewhere around 9-3, but he wasn't happy with that, so I moved them up a bit, but that still wasn't good enough. I moved them up another three quarters of an inch, and only then did he pronounce it acceptable.

....and to think I'd been driving for about 48 years and never realised what a complete hash I was making of steering.

Now I'm sure that isn't typical of all IAM Observers, but clearly there's sufficient of that mentality in the IAM for a lot of people to be put off going to them. Just as a matter of interest, do the RoSPA AD people suffer similarly from this, er, anality? (That word may not be strictly appropriate, but I expect you know what I mean.)

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Astraist]

As long as the steering performance and the outcome can be classified as "smooth, gradual, unhurried, disciplined, fluent, accurate, safe", for instance, I'm happy.

I'll be happy with that kind of steering performance too, irregardless of the steering method used. If it's smooth and controled, and the driver takes bit "bites" of steering in each movement, I would not dicourage them if they cross their hands over.

Pull-Push: (What I was taught) Low speed manoeuvring. Tight bends, junctions, mini roundabouts. For speeds up to ~20-25mph and/or where wheel rotation greater than ~180deg is required.

Personally, I use Pull-Push only if the steering mechanism is exceptionally heavy or it's hard to reach the top end of the steering, as it would be in some lorries.

Fixed Grip: Wheel rotation up to 45deg – any speed. I know many will do more and, as we now know, new Roadcraft mentions 90deg but I find >45deg a bit uncomfortable/awkward and therefore not very smooth.

I think that Roadcraft advises to use fixed-input for any input smaller than 90 degrees, much like I was taught at the time. From 90 degrees and further, it does become somewhat awkward.

One handed Predictive Steering: For speeds over ~20-25mph, wheel rotation between 45-180deg. Since reading other threads and watching youtube clips, I’ve started taking the pulling hand past 12 o’clock (e.g. To 11 o’clock-ish for a R/H bend). Although I have noticed, as I’m taking the lock off, that I subconsciously raise the non-pulling hand to meet the wheel spoke as it comes round – a bit of PP. I know there are advocates for taking larger chunks of wheel with the pulling hand in PS but, again, I find this a bit uncomfortable/awkward.

Many drivers comment on that, but I find that most of them get used to it after a while. You can turn the wheel 270 degrees with this method, provided that you position your pulling hand across and under the wheel (meaning that the hand is upside down), and I see how that can be awkward.

Most drivers learn to make this a bit more fluent by turning the wheel with fixed input first, which than allows to pull the wheel from across (i.e. right hand to 9 o'clock) and than pulling under the opposite hand. This can also be used to make a series of such movements in a fluent succession, which allows to turn the wheel quite rapidly (when required) and smoothly for any input nessecary.

In my view, this removes the need (for me) to use Pull-Push, since I can use this method for all sorts of steering inputs. If the steering is done at an exceptionally slow speed, as it would be in percision manuevers while parking, I palm the wheel while applying this technique.

Two handed Predictive Steering: Long, high speed bends on motorways and the like – so my hands are at 9-3 when going around the bend.

Personally, I only use two-handed predictive steering only in bends with a decreasing radius. These bends are problematic with predictive steering since, If you preposition your hand in accordance to the steering input required at the apex, you will still go through most of the bend with the hands not at the 9 and 3 position.

In this situation, I preposition for pulling just 45 degrees, and do so by pre-positioning both hands, and apply any further steering input via fixed-input. This allows to apply smooth, controled steering, without crossing the forearms over in the bend.
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