"only a fool"…………

[MGF]

Disadvantaged in what way? The 2 second gap is for safety not progress. If it compromises safety then maybe its use should be amended in those situations.

[TheInsanity1234]

Very straight, level, long straight stretch - is precisely the significant bit.
It costs too much to have these chevrons everywhere.
There's a higher incidence of rear-ends on these chevron-ed stretches, hence the special treatment.
Can you think why, on a full, busy stretch of motorway like these, space is vitally important?
What problems accrue from the m/w's straightness when combined with lack of space here?

Well evidently, if the road is straight, then you're gonna have to drop back in order to maintain the view in front of whatever's in front of you.
I have a big, big problem with my parents following at a 2 second gap on those stretches of motorway, as I don't feel that they could possibly see far enough ahead.
(But then, unless it's like midnight, then anything bigger than a 1 second gap would probably be filled by a car if you're not aggressive enough.)
Another thing I dislike about following at normal distances on straight stretches is that because there is so little movement being done to maintain the straight line, it's very easy to fall into a trance whilst travelling along those sections, so you're better off giving yourself a bigger gap, so you have more time to come out of a trance and stamp on the brake pedal. (or whatever is needs to be done.)

Do you ever feel disadvantaged by maintaining a 2 sec gap on busy motorways and the like? Planning a move out into L3 to pass slower traffic in L1 & L2 - a lorry with 2 or 3 or more cars behind it - you maintain a 2 sec gap and the cars behind the lorry take the invite to pull out into L3 in the gap you've left - one after the other - so you almost end up going slower and slower to accommodate. Meanwhile, vehicles behind you are bunching and in the now emptying L2 I've even had cars pass me on the left and pull into my 2 sec gap. Have you ever experienced this? I'm not saying it happens every day but I do a lot of motorway commuting... How do you deal with or avoid this situation?

It does happen often to my parents, and their way of dealing with it is to just continue forwards no matter the gap, and when they're getting close to the the lorry in the left lane, they'll sort of start easing off to increase the gap, then boom, off they go past the lorry and everyone's pulled over and is going at 63 mph, so my parents just cruise past

[TheInsanity1234]

...but then the gap came out at 16 car lengths, which seems like an awfully big gap.

No sounds about right to me.

I think my real problem is just trying to put an every-day sub-conscious thing into a calculation, it's difficult to be reasonably accurate with numbers (Especially when I've not had a chance to put any thinking into practice)

Exactly - so why not stick to the 2 seconds gap guide...it's easy to check and works? Just make sure you count 'one thousand, two thousand' and not '1,2'.

Or you could count "elephant"s (see Gregory's Girl) or "mississippi"s.

Or you could just recite, "only a fool breaks the two second rule", as suggested in the original adverts.

I just go 1 alligator, 2 alligator

Mr Insanity, have you worked out how to choose your driving instructor? With most driving instructors, you would drive them mad by thinking you knew better, and they would drive you mad because you would know better! I recommend you to look for someone who advertises that they also coach advanced driving. You may also want to ask their 'grade' and look for a high one - qualified instructors are graded 4, 5 & 6, with 6 being highest. They are regraded at each check test.

Unfortunately, an excellent instructor may cost a little more per hour - but could be better value in the long run.

I have an additional problem with choosing an instructor, which is I have to find an deaf-friendly one, as me being deaf doesn't exactly help me understand what the instructor is saying unless he is deaf-aware
I am just going to use the instructor that my school recommends, as he works with all the deaf pupils that need an instructor from my school, so he obviously is very deaf-aware.
My sister also passed her test with him after failing first time with an instructor from Essex, so he must be doing something right!
The other thing is, I aim to pass my test as soon as possible, which does mean I'm just going to do whatever is necessary to pass the test, then when that's sorted, I'll progress further with driving stuff (if I have the money to spare, that is...)

[martine]

...You may also want to ask their 'grade' and look for a high one - qualified instructors are graded 4, 5 & 6, with 6 being highest. They are regraded at each check test.

Since April this has now been replaced with a simpler A or B grade...
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/standards-check-new-grading-structure-to-be-simpler-and-clearer

[Gareth]

[...] then anything bigger than a 1 second gap would probably be filled by a car if you're not aggressive enough.

'Perspective— Use It or Lose It'

Imagine following with a two second gap, and another driver fits their vehicle between you and the one ahead. How big a deal is it really? Remind yourself how fast you're travelling, how much difference it will make to your journey time, then lift off slightly and let the gap build up again to a comfortable level, and let go of the emotional reaction.

If you really need to defeat those who push into your following distance, sit two seconds behind a lorry in lane one.

[martine]

[...] then anything bigger than a 1 second gap would probably be filled by a car if you're not aggressive enough.

'Perspective— Use It or Lose It'

Imagine following with a two second gap, and another driver fits their vehicle between you and the one ahead. How big a deal is it really? Remind yourself how fast you're travelling, how much difference it will make to your journey time, then lift off slightly and let the gap build up again to a comfortable level, and let go of the emotional reaction.

If you really need to defeat those who push into your following distance, sit two seconds behind a lorry in lane one.

Absolutely.
I used to (before AD enlightenment) get frustrated with under-takers who 'push-in' in front...these days I take the moral high-ground and really, it doesn't happen that often despite what a lot of people think.

[Zebedee]

I agree with Martin.

If someone squeezes in front, so what? I'll let the emotion go and just drop back to a 2-second gap again. People do squeeze in, but it hardly matters. If I was that fussed, then I should have set off five minutes earlier.

Not having a 2-second gap could have life-changing consequences for me, should I need to do an emergency stop.

[MGF]

I find, when intending to pass traffic in lane's 1 or 2, that the speed of traffic ahead and the desire to maintain a 2 second gap will usually result in slower traffic needing to use the lane ahead of me before I can pass it. That forms part of my plan rather than an interruption to it.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

...I would just guess that a decent following distance would be:
Minimum number of car lengths = (speed limit / 10) + 1
For example, the speed limit is 70, so the minimum following distance should be 8 car lengths?

mmmm...not sure about your maths...8 car lengths would be around a 1 second gap @ 70mph...eeeek

Bearing in mind the 'official' thinking time is 0.7 seconds, you'd be awfully close to the vehicle in front before even starting to brake...

He's on the right lines though - he's nearly re-invented the 2-second rule for himself (except he's come up with half of that as a safe distance). The key is that the distance needs to vary with speed, which makes it time-based, if you're going to have a rule.

So let's try car lengths (~4m) = (speed limit / 5) and we get 2 seconds. Voilá! The +1 in the original equation becomes more significant at lower speeds, which seems a bit back to front, so I've dropped that.

@TI234 - Stopping distance = thinking distance (standardised at 1s) + braking distance. Sometimes braking distance will be combined with that of the car in front (unless it hits a previously unobserved brick wall) but thinking distance never will, so you always need that cushion. That's a time - you can't arbitrarily change it into a distance, because the distance varies with speed. So you already have the nucleus of a time-based formula. Given that braking distance also varies with speed, that begins to equate more closely to time, as well. Hence the 2 second rule. Simples.

[martine]

...Given that braking distance also varies with speed, that begins to equate more closely to time, as well.

Yes but of course it's not a straight line...doubling your speed, doubles braking time but quadruples braking distance.

[TheInsanity1234]

...I would just guess that a decent following distance would be:
Minimum number of car lengths = (speed limit / 10) + 1
For example, the speed limit is 70, so the minimum following distance should be 8 car lengths?

mmmm...not sure about your maths...8 car lengths would be around a 1 second gap @ 70mph...eeeek

Bearing in mind the 'official' thinking time is 0.7 seconds, you'd be awfully close to the vehicle in front before even starting to brake...

He's on the right lines though - he's nearly re-invented the 2-second rule for himself (except he's come up with half of that as a safe distance). The key is that the distance needs to vary with speed, which makes it time-based, if you're going to have a rule.

So let's try car lengths (~4m) = (speed limit / 5) and we get 2 seconds. Voilá! The +1 in the original equation becomes more significant at lower speeds, which seems a bit back to front, so I've dropped that.

@TI234 - Stopping distance = thinking distance (standardised at 1s) + braking distance. Sometimes braking distance will be combined with that of the car in front (unless it hits a previously unobserved brick wall) but thinking distance never will, so you always need that cushion. That's a time - you can't arbitrarily change it into a distance, because the distance varies with speed. So you already have the nucleus of a time-based formula. Given that braking distance also varies with speed, that begins to equate more closely to time, as well. Hence the 2 second rule. Simples.

Ah, I see.
Here's the thing I don't get, there are people talking about how the 2 second rule doesn't give you a big enough gap to stop at motorway speeds. It's only an issue if the car in front suddenly ploughs into a brick wall that you somehow didn't see until that point.
If that is a common problem for you (Sudden stationary objects appearing in front of you meaning you have to swerve to avoid them, as braking firmly isn't enough), then either you may want to consider changing your route to a lower risk route, or, just start looking a bit further ahead than the bumper of the car in front.
You're (presumably) responsible for the control of your own car, which does mean you should be attempting to amass as much information as possible from your surroundings, so that you can spot potential hazards earlier, and adjust your forward planning to accommodate those hazards, rather than just hoping that the car in front will do the job, and all you have to do is look at his brake lights.

[Ralge]

If that is a common problem for you (Sudden stationary objects appearing in front of you meaning you have to swerve to avoid them, as braking firmly isn't enough), then either you may want to consider changing your route to a lower risk route, or, just start looking a bit further ahead than the bumper of the car in front.
You're (presumably) responsible for the control of your own car, which does mean you should be attempting to amass as much information as possible from your surroundings, so that you can spot potential hazards earlier, and adjust your forward planning to accommodate those hazards, rather than just hoping that the car in front will do the job, and all you have to do is look at his brake lights.[/quote]

Sudden stationary objects can indeed happen on long straight stretches.
Not knowing what is happening 200 - 800 metres ahead of the vehicle(s) (and beyond) on a full, busy motorway with everyone in front of you driving too close is the feature of long straight stretches (+/- 1 mile).
Hence the repeated rear-ends, the chevrons and a suggestion that a 2-second gap should be treated as a minimum and should be extended to 3 seconds particularly where vision ahead is blocked.

[richie349]

In fact, have any of you noticed that in some places on the motorway, there are chevrons painted on the road and you have to follow someone with at least 2 of those in between you and the car in front.
The gap that they make you follow at varies slightly, depending on your position in the car, but the average I've counted is between 1 and 1.5 seconds. Those distances are closer than the 2 second rule that the government keep talking about?

Your position in the car makes no difference. The gap between one chevron and the next is exactly the same whether you're sat up on a cushion, or lying back with your seat fully reclined. Being lower down will make the chevron appear to disappear under your bonnet sooner, but the same applies to the next one, so the time gap is unaffected.

[GJD]

Here's the thing I don't get, there are people talking about how the 2 second rule doesn't give you a big enough gap to stop at motorway speeds.

Perhaps they've just misunderstood the purpose of advice about following distance.

Nobody said the two second rule was supposed to maintain a larger gap than your stopping distance, so criticising it for failing to do that makes no sense.

[TheInsanity1234]

In fact, have any of you noticed that in some places on the motorway, there are chevrons painted on the road and you have to follow someone with at least 2 of those in between you and the car in front.
The gap that they make you follow at varies slightly, depending on your position in the car, but the average I've counted is between 1 and 1.5 seconds. Those distances are closer than the 2 second rule that the government keep talking about?

Your position in the car makes no difference. The gap between one chevron and the next is exactly the same whether you're sat up on a cushion, or lying back with your seat fully reclined. Being lower down will make the chevron appear to disappear under your bonnet sooner, but the same applies to the next one, so the time gap is unaffected.

No, being lower down or having a longer bonnet makes the chevron disappear under your bonnet sooner, which would cause you to stay further back from a car in front, but sitting higher up with a short bonnet means the chevron disappears a bit later, so you would follow a bit closer.