The brake gear overlap

[fungus]

You haven't met the East Surrey contingent, have you?

No but if they're a breath of fresh air when it comes to IAM AD I'd be very happy to.

Oh, we are, believe me we are. What Head Office doesn't know their little hearts need not grieve over. Some of us actually enjoy driving too! You'll meet quite a few of us on here, and at ADUK driving days. Me, jcochrane, vanman, gannet.......[/quote]

Load of hooligans.

[Kimosabe]

I may yet defect. Does Surrey permit ex Londoners who currently live in Sussex to join or would I first need to get the group motto 'drive like you nicked it' tattooed in order to prove allegiance?

I suggest we meet at Newlands Corner (used to be a tea and sarnie caravan there) or that pub in Abinger... can't remember the name as I haven't been there since the early nineties. Anyone up for a blast in my MX5?

Every overlap thread has a silver lining.

[jcochrane]

You might reconsider when you know where the tattoo has to be located...

The passage of right is a closely guarded secret. How did you hear about it?

[jcochrane]

One of those you show me yours and I'll show you mine things....

[Kimosabe]

I'd sit at the back and not get in anyone's way. I've got a spare apron. Surrey IAM opens doors. It gets you places.

"Buttock cleavage exhibited by large people when wearing ill-fitting or inadequate trousers. Most commonly associated with workmen and labourers in the construction trade. Often referred to as a "brickie's arse" or "builder's bum".

When the plumber bent over to pick up his wrench my mum copped an eyeful of his dagenham smile.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... am%20smile

[skodatezzer]

Goodness, just where has this thread got to since I visited it last. Really, such vulgarity!! Kimosabe, we welcome all comers - just wondering if we're a bit too far East for you, being based around Caterham/ Bletchingley/ Redhill way. We have a monthly "fun run" on a Sunday morning - if you'd like more details please pm me. And I'd be up for a 121 sometime - I too have an MX-5 to tear around in (in a systematic manner, of course ), as well as the Octy which has given me my forum name. Can't remember, you're not down for the Oxford thing on 18th October, are you?

[Kimosabe]

I'll PM you in order to further promote inter provincial relations.

Regarding the ADUK day, much as I'd love to join in, it's just that little bit too far away for me to cope with it in a day, as well as being about a third of my pocket money's worth which I'm saving up to give to an HPC gatekeeper.

So about this BGOL lark....

[Rick101]

Hmm,

Was browsing the IAM forum and found this post by member John.

1. I drive a Vauxhall Astra 1.7 Cdti Ecoflex 130bhp.

2. I'm not sure if I have used the expression correctly, but when I wrote about "riding the clutch", I meant keeping my foot on the clutch for longer than I think I should, to allow me to approach a hazard without changing down a gear. I'm a bit confused, as one of the first pointers I was given on my first observed run was that the examiner has a bee in his bonnet about about riding the clutch, so it should be generally avoided (I agree with and understand this). But a subsequent pointer on the same ob. run was that I shouldn't need to change down a gear when approaching a hazard/junction/etc.........so in order to achieve the first rule, I feel I have to flout the second if I drop my speed but not a gear, because my car seems to labour to a point where it's actually stalled twice on an observed run, when I'm following my observer's advice. This is particularly a problem in urban settings. I have tried to discuss it on both observed runs, but I found that there didn't seem to be room for me to ask questions or discuss the nuances of this situation.

Sums up my concern. There are observers and examiners out there who are enforcing a system they don't really understand. Observers I can deal with, you just take or leave the advice. I can only hope I don't get one of those examiners as there is no room for argument.

[Horse]

Exactly that.

Both my current 1.6td and previous 1.7td would stall at low revs where a petrol engine (eg the family 1.6) wouldn't, going from top gear at 70mph to a standstill at a red light.

Typical situation is leaving th M4 at J13, where there are traffic lights at the bottom of the slips.

For me, a different driving style is needed, one which I would not have been aware of without owning a diesel.

[Horse]

*And* you'll be 'making progress' so will tick that box too

[Kimosabe]

Rick101,

It's very easy to find arguments against the way Roadcraft driving is being taught and I tend to favour putting the whole thing into context by comparing the needs of a Police Driver (for whom RC was written) on a shout at high speed, versus me popping to the shops for a pint of milk and a Beano. The risks are very different and my driving matches those risks; BGOL is just not an issue. Some say it's inconsistent to only sometimes avoid BGOL, I say so what and think of the history of and needs for 'full separation', along with the stated occasions when it's suddenly not that critical or dangerous at all. That is not to say that the advice you are being given in this thread about how to separate is wrong, just that you can do it if you really want to and the lens through which you are being examined isn't necessarily as good as it gets.

It seems that the IAM are trying to change to a more mentoring and personal developmental approach to coaching which seeks to add to the toolkit instead of to replace it with a different one for the sake of it. Won't be easy.

Let us know how you get on. Tons of great advice on how to in this thread.

2020 VISION
Simon Best, CEO IAM
"The pace of change, and especially technological change is breathtaking. It has had a huge impact on driving and riding. That's why the IAM must adapt and change."

[waremark]

How many IAM Observers can heel and toe? Few. And how many of them could teach safely how to use it and when? Fewer.

Most IAM examiners have no experience of it.

So how do you think the IAM should deal with it?

(Honest question from someone who personally thinks that use of h&t in suitable circumstances is simply a better way to drive, but who believes that the IAM cannot teach it and that there is no reason for them to do so)

[vonhosen]

How many IAM Observers can heel and toe? Few. And how many of them could teach safely how to use it and when? Fewer.

Most IAM examiners have no experience of it.

So how do you think the IAM should deal with it?

(Honest question from someone who personally thinks that use of h&t in suitable circumstances is simply a better way to drive, but who believes that the IAM cannot teach it and that there is no reason for them to do so)

How many Observers used full separation before they went to the IAM?
How many could demonstrate it well straight away after going to the IAM?

[zadocbrown]

How many IAM Observers can heel and toe? Few. And how many of them could teach safely how to use it and when? Fewer.

Most IAM examiners have no experience of it.

So how do you think the IAM should deal with it?

(Honest question from someone who personally thinks that use of h&t in suitable circumstances is simply a better way to drive, but who believes that the IAM cannot teach it and that there is no reason for them to do so)

It would be good for observers to be aware of the technique. I think the official line would be we don't teach it but if you do it well we will accept it. I think that's about right. Hopefully if someone came along as an associate using ht they would be sent to one of those observers who understand how it works. Honestly though, I've never heard of it happening.

[hir]

(Honest question from someone who personally thinks that use of h&t in suitable circumstances is simply a better way to drive, but who believes that the IAM cannot teach it and that there is no reason for them to do so)

It would be good for observers to be aware of the technique. I think the official line would be we don't teach it but if you do it well we will accept it. I think that's about right. Hopefully if someone came along as an associate using ht they would be sent to one of those observers who understand how it works. Honestly though, I've never heard of it happening.

In my experience the problem that associates have who bring H&T to the IAM "party" is that they use H&T as a get-out-of-jail-free card to overcome their tendency, through lack of planning, to compress the system. Instead of using H&T as a planned component of a systematic approach to a hazard, as waremark does, their use of H&T arises from a lack of planning. Everything then appears rushed; whereas a properly planned H&T should be almost imperceptible to the passenger.

As waremark says, a properly planned H&T, in the right circumstances, can significantly enhance bend transition where it's appropriate. Where it's not necessary to use H&T to enhance bend transition, then use brake/gear separation. In my opinion, derived from watching many expert exponents of H&T, the skill is not in the physical action of H&T, anyone with the right car and feet that aren't too big can master the technique. No, the skill is in knowing when to use the technique and building it in to the planned approach to the hazard.

So, in my view, the real problem for IAM observers is not the teaching, or acceptance, of the physical action of the H&T'ing technique but the teaching of when it's appropriate and useful to use H&T as part of a planned, systematic, approach to a hazard, as well as when it's not necessary to use the technique.