Speed

[TripleS]

I'm sorry guys, I didn't anticipate my mini rant/whinge being picked up on to this extent.

I think I might seek to lighten the atmosphere by creating a diversion by means of another thread; but it will not be about driving, or cars. We'll see if I get into trouble for it.

BTW, glad to see you back here, Von. Needed a more civilised alternative to PH, I suppose.

[jont]

The real problem I have with the regs is that they can't/don't stop the incompetent, while putting red tape in the way of those who are competent, but would also prefer to do things legally. I don't know how you fix that

It's up to the regulatory body to get rid of the incompetent members.

I really meant the stopping the incompetent DIYers.

[TripleS]

The real problem I have with the regs is that they can't/don't stop the incompetent, while putting red tape in the way of those who are competent, but would also prefer to do things legally. I don't know how you fix that

It's up to the regulatory body to get rid of the incompetent members.

I really meant the stopping the incompetent DIYers.

Maybe so, but what harm are they doing, or likely to do? They are probably going to be wasting their time, effort and money, but that is their problem and I don't see if affecting anybody else very much.

So far as DIY is concerned, I wouldn't get involved with anything electrical unless it is a very localised bit of work and quite simple and straightforward.

When it comes to gas systems, I would have to get the work done by a qualified and competent person, and i would not hesitate in doing so. In the past we have not had gas in our homes as I've always been a bit nervous of it: house might blow up in the middle of the night, etc. A rare event maybe, but as I say, I'm not comfortable with it. Having said that, our new home has a gas boiler and keeping it seems to be the best option, so we shall need outside help with that.

The plumbing system, where it merely involves pipework, radiators, valves, circulating pump etc., is no problem. I have considerable practical experience of that sort of work, so I do not see why outside authorities have any justification for becoming involved. With all due respect to Von's concerns, if I end up with water leaks, it would make a mess and waste some water, but that would be our problem and it's not going to affect anyone else.

[jont]

Maybe so, but what harm are they doing, or likely to do? They are probably going to be wasting their time, effort and money, but that is their problem and I don't see if affecting anybody else very much.

Let's see, other than the gas leak when we moved into our last house, there was the badly designed and leaking extension roof (with an unsupported valley gutter ), the kitchen electrics which needed redoing, the plaster falling off the wall, the bouncy upstairs floorboards....
The main house (built mid 1970s) was very solid, but pretty much everything the previous owner touched in building the extension within the last 10 years caused problems in some way once you got past the paint. I can only think it got signed off by way of a brown envelope...

I'm the opposite of you - I've got no problem doing electrics (it's all logical, and either works, or goes bang pretty much immediately), but I hate plumbing. The genders of connectors never match up. Washers are never quite the right size. If it can leak it will, but often not obviously (until 6 months later when your ceiling falls in).

[revian]

Jont...

I'm the opposite of you - I've got no problem doing electrics (it's all logical, and either works, or goes bang pretty much immediately),

I've discovered the joy of Wago connectors... Domestic electrics are reasonably logical... But Car electrics??? They seem to have a circuit diagram logic of their own... Not that I've delved into that for 30 years.

Ian

[TripleS]

Maybe so, but what harm are they doing, or likely to do? They are probably going to be wasting their time, effort and money, but that is their problem and I don't see if affecting anybody else very much.

Let's see, other than the gas leak when we moved into our last house, there was the badly designed and leaking extension roof (with an unsupported valley gutter ), the kitchen electrics which needed redoing, the plaster falling off the wall, the bouncy upstairs floorboards....
The main house (built mid 1970s) was very solid, but pretty much everything the previous owner touched in building the extension within the last 10 years caused problems in some way once you got past the paint. I can only think it got signed off by way of a brown envelope...

I'm the opposite of you - I've got no problem doing electrics (it's all logical, and either works, or goes bang pretty much immediately), but I hate plumbing. The genders of connectors never match up. Washers are never quite the right size. If it can leak it will, but often not obviously (until 6 months later when your ceiling falls in).

Hmm, but while the existing owners are living in the property, any faulty DIY activity by them upsets nobody apart from themselves, particlarly if it is a detached property.

In your case you encountered trouble because the previous owner had been an incompetent DIYer, by the sound of it: but didn't you have a survey done, so that the shortcomings were clearly identified?

[revian]

Don't most surveys only tell you what can be seen?

"Lift the carpets sir? You'll need an expert for that."

Ian

[jont]

Don't most surveys only tell you what can be seen?

"Lift the carpets sir? You'll need an expert for that."

Ian

If only they were that good. Our surveyor who missed the damp patch on the ceiling where the chimney was leaking... (we were having it taken out, so weren't that bothered when we found it, but the surveyor didn't know that) But still they suggested electrical check, gas check, drains survey etc etc. In fact most surveys only seem to say as much as "yes, there's a house there. But you need a professional of XYZ to tell you anything more ".

[revian]

Don't most surveys only tell you what can be seen?

"Lift the carpets sir? You'll need an expert for that."

Ian

If only they were that good. Our surveyor who missed the damp patch on the ceiling where the chimney was leaking... (we were having it taken out, so weren't that bothered when we found it, but the surveyor didn't know that) But still they suggested electrical check, gas check, drains survey etc etc. In fact most surveys only seem to say as much as "yes, there's a house there. But you need a professional of XYZ to tell you anything more ".

So much so that we didn't bother. House obviously solid.. Permission/ certs in place... Good look round... wysiwyg ... Anything we couldn't see the 'expert' couldn't have found. The cooker still broke down on day 1

Ian

[WhoseGeneration]

Oh dear, yet again a new member concerned about "speed" and the same arguments are repeated.
A pattern?
The argument is expanded by members to encompass such as services in domestic premises and the regulation thereof, together with the standards of service provided by so called professionals.
My advice?, do what I have always done, read and do.
Remember, Government wants a subservient population. Regulations are part of that.
vonhosen's approach is too simplistic and doesn't lead to challenging citizens to constantly improve.

[MGF]

...It seems government is going to be rather short of money for rather longer than we thought.

Than you thought. I wasn't duped.

[TripleS]

Don't most surveys only tell you what can be seen?

"Lift the carpets sir? You'll need an expert for that."

Ian

If only they were that good. Our surveyor who missed the damp patch on the ceiling where the chimney was leaking... (we were having it taken out, so weren't that bothered when we found it, but the surveyor didn't know that) But still they suggested electrical check, gas check, drains survey etc etc. In fact most surveys only seem to say as much as "yes, there's a house there. But you need a professional of XYZ to tell you anything more ".

So much so that we didn't bother. House obviously solid.. Permission/ certs in place... Good look round... wysiwyg ... Anything we couldn't see the 'expert' couldn't have found. The cooker still broke down on day 1

Ian

Yes, I understand what you're both saying and I agree with it. We decided not to bother with a normal survey, so we asked a local builder to look at the property with us. This is somebody who has done various building work for us for many years. He's very conservative and reliable, has a solid traditional approach to things, but is also fairly clued up on modern developments in building materials and techniques. He tends to stick with the old reliable ways of working and doesn't rush to adopt new ideas until he's satisfied they have been proved to be satisfactory. We get on very well!

[TripleS]

Oh dear, yet again a new member concerned about "speed" and the same arguments are repeated.
A pattern?
The argument is expanded by members to encompass such as services in domestic premises and the regulation thereof, together with the standards of service provided by so called professionals.
My advice?, do what I have always done, read and do.
Remember, Government wants a subservient population. Regulations are part of that.
vonhosen's approach is too simplistic and doesn't lead to challenging citizens to constantly improve.

Vonhosen's situation is rather different from the situation that most of us are in. It's his business (at least in part) to see that we comply with the law, so he is inherently attuned to laws, rules, regulations etc., even if he doesn't agree with all of them all the time.

I reaslise that I'll incur considerable disapproval from many people for saying this, but in truth I don't have much interest in what the law requires from me. Back in the 1940s I was brought up in a conservative family to be kind and considerate towards other people, to take care of what we had (which wasn't much) and not be wasteful. It was also expected that I would be law abiding, and I was. Unfortunately, for many years now the (increasing range of) laws have been made by politicians for whom I have little regard, as a result of which I heartily disagree with the overall approach to lawmaking. In my opinion it has placed far too much emphasis on stuff that doesn't matter, but still fails to serve us well in the things that do matter; at least to some of us.

Back to 'speed', I object to the NSL, and do not see that it deserves respect.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[jont]

Unfortunately, for many years now the (increasing range of) laws have been made by politicians for whom I have little regard, as a result of which I heartily disagree with the overall approach to lawmaking. In my opinion it has placed far too much emphasis on stuff that doesn't matter, but still fails to serve us well in the things that do matter; at least to some of us.

Back to 'speed', I object to the NSL, and do not see that it deserves respect.

which links nicely to an interview with Guy Martin:
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2 ... -channel-4

Last couple of paragraphs in particular.

[akirk]

I reaslise that I'll incur considerable disapproval from many people for saying this, but in truth I don't have much interest in what the law requires from me. Back in the 1940s I was brought up in a conservative family to be kind and considerate towards other people, to take care of what we had (which wasn't much) and not be wasteful. It was also expected that I would be law abiding, and I was. Unfortunately, for many years now the (increasing range of) laws have been made by politicians for whom I have little regard, as a result of which I heartily disagree with the overall approach to lawmaking. In my opinion it has placed far too much emphasis on stuff that doesn't matter, but still fails to serve us well in the things that do matter; at least to some of us.

An interesting perspective...

For many of us we have been brought up to automatically observe all laws - the approach which means that the UK tends to implement all EU regulations where some other countries perhaps take a more flexible approach!

However we need to balance that with remembering that the country's laws are simply a human process and humans are themselves falible... therefore not all laws are automatically good and we should retain our intelligence and judge how to react - we are lucky that there are very few bad laws in our part of the world (in contrast to other areas) bu there may well be a number of silly / frustrating / unnecessary laws...

Our laws are not infinite in term - get yourself elected with your friends and you can change them - therefore by definition they are not absolute... however I think that an individual's moral framework (such as faith / religion) might give them absolutes in parallel... of course amongst those absolutes may be the need to respect / obey those in authority!

but it should mean that we take an intelligent view of law and how we react to it - how does this affect speed - it should mean that a) there is a respect for the law in part, but perhaps there is also a wider thinking about danger / risk / lives (driver & others) etc. which all come into play... does 61mph on a clear NSL A road matter? possibly not, but 25 through a village and past a school in a 30 at the end of the school day might not be appropriate either...

and that is a lot of what AD is about - applying intelligence to all aspects of the driving

Alasdair