Driver Psychology

[kewlcol]

I've just been reading some other posts, as well as referencing some feedback from my post about 'Speed'. And I think it would be a worthwhile debate to discuss how people react to others on the road who are Speeding, Driving Erratically or Carelessly, Distracted Drivers, and Drivers who for whatever reason cause us to be irritated.

There are good points there, but I'd be hesitant about invoking John Lyon: When I did my half-day HPC intro with him in about '92, he firstly gave me some very good pointers that helped my driving hugely and, secondly, was utterly psychotic about other road users, to the point where he very nearly ended up walking thirty miles home - he was particularly arsey about cyclists, expressing the belief that, whenever a car came up behind them on a narrow road, they should immediately pull in, stop and let the motor vehicle past. Not a good advert for progressive driving. Put me off the HPC for years, that did.

I do, alongside many others get frustrated with other road users, normally drivers. I don't find that same frustration with pedestrians or cyclists, even if they can be erratic or unpredictable in their movements. However, I have learned over time not to hold on to that frustration and to let it go and try to smile or laugh it away. That can be so difficult particularly if someone has put you in danger or a road accident has narrowly been avoided. After all, what can we can do? We could report the incident. You could pull over and call the Police, or you may have running video that captures an incident, which you could present to the Police. But, in practice how many of us actually report things to the Police in our lifetimes. And specifically in relation to motoring. I think we all are guilty at one time or other of failing to report crimes we witness. If we were driving down the road and saw two men smashing a window and clearly breaking into someone’s home would we pull over and call the Police? I think many (but not all) of us would. Conversely, if we see someone overtaking dangerously, someone drives erratically or someone using their phone while not wearing their seatbelt, would we pull over and ring the Police with their registration number? No, maybe a very small minority would.

Extracting some comments from another post of mine. I was getting a message from some people that if I become frustrated with other peoples actions I should ignore it and let them pass, helping them on their way and not get involved in what other people do, and to get my own house in order first. Even though I believe it is important to try not to harbour frustration which can affect our own capability and safety on the road, and to try and see an incident as a learning experience rather than an 'angry' experience. However, that doesn't mean we should just let everything pass us by. I think we (as a community/society) are just simply becoming so individualistic. We are not caring what others do as long as it doesn't impact on us. And on the road this is particularly evident. People drive round in their own little worlds, many without any consideration for the road or others around them. The only aim being to get to their destination. That's never my aim of driving. Personally I try to be courteous to road users. This means I often let people out of junctions in town, if safe of course, or let people cross my path etc., also affording the same courteousness to pedestrians and cyclists. I tend to automatically lift my hand to wave. However, I find hardly anyone returns the gesture even though it is me that is affording them that courtesy. Why is this? Are we just becoming more and more unfriendly on the road?

I just wonder what other people think. I do make every attempt to keep within the law on the road and I have reported motorists, but not many times. I too am guilty for seeing things happen which I don't do anything about. But can you imagine reporting people for using their phone and not wearing their seatbelt. I know where I live many local builders/joiners/painters etc that drive round town in their work vans are on the phone while driving and not wearing a seatbelt.

As a cyclist I find I am less tolerant of motorists. And I have reported many people. I have been knocked off, hit twice and had many 'close shaves' as well as encountering many aggressive drivers who just simply don't think cyclists should share the road. There are some interesting YouTube videos about driver/cyclist confrontation.

I know some people will come back with their opinion that why care about what other's do. A paedophile in our community seems to evoke a different reaction to a dangerous motorist. When I took my driving lessons my ADI drilled into me, when you get in that car you are going out with a 'killing machine', think of it like walking round with a 'loaded gun'. And that is exactly what it is. 20mph and we can kill someone. People don't realise that. For example the road at the end of my street. A fairly busy 30mph road, where the majority travel at 40+. And faster often in the other direction (which comes off the A1 dual carriageway). Many coming down from 70 to 30 seem to take a couple of mile to do it. There is a bend in the road near to a school. The road can often be wet as water can lie, and there are no railings between pavement and road. There are no crossings, only 2 islands. And the school crossing patrol has not been replaced due to cutbacks. A high potential for an incident. I even feel anxious walking down the road and certainly won't cycle. A flashing 30 sign has been installed, which serves no useful purpose. Why the hell don't people slow down? I slow down and keep near the crown of the road when passing kids, and watch! Someone driving at 40, using their phone and braking on the bend ...... well?

Why can't we all share the road in harmony, and why can't we strive to be courteous and pleasant to other road users. I know it is impossible to keep everyone within the law and to ensure everyone drives safely but we can work towards that goal. What a much more pleasant experience driving would be.

I

[trashbat]

This time, I sympathise with your view. I do believe that British society has become more selfish and insular. Much of that is a political debate rather than a driving-specific one. I certainly have some views on the matter, but I doubt this is the platform.

But what can you do when driving, an activity that's inherently isolated? You can't re-educate anyone through remonstration, silently willing them to change, or whatever else you might hope for from your driving seat.

There are only two things you can do. You can look after yourself by ensuring your own driving is as good as it can be, and you can extend a positive example to others that they might then adopt pieces of. Most people are conformist to a high degree and do what they think is acceptable within some quite narrow norms.

There's a long but interesting (or not to some) thread on here about the psychology of driving and something called GDE. That might be worth a read with regard to identifying and manipulating your own attitudes.

Finally, road safety can become emotional, and you can easily get caught up in all kinds of micro and macro scale issues. Plus you can go out on the road and see stupid behaviour and inherent problems pretty much any time you want to. Before long you're writing letters to your local paper. However, think about the other side of it. The casualty rate is remarkably low. A huge number of people move around on the roads every single day without damage, injury or death. You probably haven't been involved in an accident yourself. There's room for improvement in this picture, of course, but what level of concern and stress does it really merit? And how does that fit against what you personally can do about it?

[TripleS]

others on the road who are Speeding, Driving Erratically or Carelessly, Distracted Drivers, and Drivers who for whatever reason cause us to be irritated.

Since you've named this thread "Driver Psychology" I'm curious to know why, psychologically, you choose to grace those categories with initial capitals.
You come across as a law abiding driver, which is commendable, but I believe that it's wrong to stigmatise other drivers for behaviour which deviates from your own. In my opinion, the only benefit in reporting (most) of other drivers' law breaking is to make you feel righteous; the downside is that it makes you feel irritated and so less able to cope with whatever the driving environment may throw at you. Someone in the "Speed" thread pointed out the benefit of a relaxed attitude when driving.

Complete agreement from here, Chris.

As I have said previously, my main focus is on making a decent job of my own driving, getting around safely and smoothly, and doing what is appropriate in relation to what other road users are doing. Almost invariably I find I can do this in a perfectly calm and relaxed manner without feeling any sort of disapproval or ill will towards those around me.

I have no interest whatsoever in judging other road users, and unless I were to be placed in real difficulty or danger by someone else's bad driving, I would not contemplate reporting it to the police.

Quite honestly I just do not find myself appreciably inconvenienced by other road users. For the most part they are doing OK as far as I'm concerned.

[hir]

I've just been reading some other posts, as well as referencing some feedback from my post about 'Speed'. And I think it would be a worthwhile debate to discuss how people react to others on the road who are Speeding, Driving Erratically or Carelessly, Distracted Drivers, and Drivers who for whatever reason cause us to be irritated.

[there then follows a general criticism of other drivers]

Why can't we all share the road in harmony, and why can't we strive to be courteous and pleasant to other road users. I know it is impossible to keep everyone within the law and to ensure everyone drives safely but we can work towards that goal. What a much more pleasant experience driving would be.

You suggest... "And I think it would be a worthwhile debate to discuss how people react to others on the road who are Speeding, Driving Erratically or Carelessly, Distracted Drivers, and Drivers who for whatever reason cause us to be irritated." But, in my opinion, what comes across loud and clear from your posting is that the real problem that you have is not other drivers per se, but that you do not have an adequate coping mechanism to deal with your perception of other drivers' poor behavior.

As has already been said by many on here one of the skills we strive to develop as advanced drivers is the ability to anticipate, and deal calmly with, other drivers' mistakes/idiocy/selfishness/ignorance/lawbreaking, thereby ensuring that the actions we take in response to other drivers' poor driving skills will keep us, and them, safe at all times. Instead of getting angry or irritated with the other driver we can instead give ourselves a pat-on-the-back for having dealt safely and skillfully with the situation presented to us.

I've just realised that this might sound as though I'm suggesting that you need to replace the emotion of irritation with one of smugness. At least smugness doesn't lead to road rage; unless of course the other driver takes umbrage and decides to smash one's smug-looking face in.

[revian]

Hir writes...

As has already been said by many on here one of the skills we strive to develop as advanced drivers is the ability to anticipate, and deal calmly with, other drivers' mistakes/idiocy/selfishness/ignorance/lawbreaking, thereby ensuring that the actions we take in response to other drivers' poor driving skills will keep us, and them, safe at all times. Instead of getting angry or irritated with the other driver we can instead give ourselves a pat-on-the-back for having dealt safely and skillfully with the situation presented to us.

Applause... But no smugness here until I'm perfect at it...

Ian

[akirk]

Extracting some comments from another post of mine. I was getting a message from some people that if I become frustrated with other peoples actions I should ignore it and let them pass, helping them on their way and not get involved in what other people do, and to get my own house in order first. Even though I believe it is important to try not to harbour frustration which can affect our own capability and safety on the road, and to try and see an incident as a learning experience rather than an 'angry' experience. However, that doesn't mean we should just let everything pass us by. I think we (as a community/society) are just simply becoming so individualistic. We are not caring what others do as long as it doesn't impact on us. And on the road this is particularly evident. People drive round in their own little worlds, many without any consideration for the road or others around them. The only aim being to get to their destination. That's never my aim of driving. Personally I try to be courteous to road users. This means I often let people out of junctions in town, if safe of course, or let people cross my path etc., also affording the same courteousness to pedestrians and cyclists. I tend to automatically lift my hand to wave. However, I find hardly anyone returns the gesture even though it is me that is affording them that courtesy. Why is this? Are we just becoming more and more unfriendly on the road?

I can see the point(s) you are making - but it is worth noting that sometimes the reaction is surprising. When there is a case of annoying driving - your stepping back and not reacting might have more effect than you think - it can even change the way that person continues to drive...

Often a bad driver / careless driver is aware of the issue they have created - a negative reaction - horn / rude gestures / flashing lights etc. while perhaps making the other person feel better - can reinforce their feeling of guilt and leave them tense and justifying their action - and continuing to drive badly... the counter is that by not reacting, being magnaminous and graceful in your reaction - you might change their attitude for the better...

it someties takes only a small gesture to change a negative cycle...

at no point does a negative reaction help, whereas a genersou / positive reaction can... you might not see the effect there and then, but it might still be important

Alasdair

[kewlcol]

The casualty rate is remarkably low. A huge number of people move around on the roads every single day without damage, injury or death. You probably haven't been involved in an accident yourself.

For year ending June of this year there were 193,000 casualties reported, and nearly 25,000 road deaths, an increase of 4% from the previous year. However, ROSPA suggest that the actual casualty rate is over 700,000. It's alarming isn't it. And we all have a part to play in ensuring we are pro-active in making the roads safer.

... but I believe that it's wrong to stigmatise other drivers for behaviour which deviates from your own. In my opinion, the only benefit in reporting (most) of other drivers' law breaking is to make you feel righteous; the downside is that it makes you feel irritated and so less able to cope with whatever the driving environment may throw at you.

Absolute tosh. Why should we not point out and hold people accountable who are putting our safety on the road at risk. It's an unbelievable attitude to take, but one which I suggest is one part of the reason why safety is jeopardized. I am not suggesting we all take down VRN's of people using mobile phones and breaking the speed limit, then report it to the authorities. The sheer vastness of such a task would be impractical. But we all have a responsibility to make safety paramount.

Some people's attitudes leave so much to be desired. No, i don't drive getting worked up about other road users, although as I have said if something dangerous occurs then there will be frustration and high anxiety no doubt. I am considerate and courteous. I enjoy driving.

[there then follows a general criticism of other drivers]

But, in my opinion, what comes across loud and clear from your posting is that the real problem that you have is not other drivers per se, but that you do not have an adequate coping mechanism to deal with your perception of other drivers' poor behavior.

... Instead of getting angry or irritated with the other driver we can instead give ourselves a pat-on-the-back for having dealt safely and skillfully with the situation presented to us.

I've just realised that this might sound as though I'm suggesting that you need to replace the emotion of irritation with one of smugness.

I make no excuse for being critical of other drivers. All of my posts on this forum have been criticised in one way or another. It's human nature I guess.

It's interesting to note your suggestion that I have a 'problem'. Should I stop the tablets, or take more perhaps? And you don't know me, so I don't think you are qualified to comment on my coping mechanisms or my own behaviour on the road. And my 'perception' tends to be factual. What I'm referring to is not necessarily 'poor behaviour' but driving that could jeopardize the safety of ourselves and perhaps others. And that is from the perspective of not just a motorist but a cyclist and pedestrian too. I think it is inherently wrong to just ignore this and think, what the hell, let them get on with it. Like I said earlier, we are driving round in 'killing machines'. What would be your attitude if people were able to carry knives and guns on their person. What would be your attitude to your personal safety then. Just because it's a motor car doesn't mean it's exempt in that context.

[MrToad]

...
For year ending June of this year there were 193,000 casualties reported, and nearly 25,000 road deaths, an increase of 4% from the previous year.
...

Just going to quote this for reference.

...we all have a part to play in ensuring we are pro-active in making the roads safer.
...

I suspect that if we all work hard, we can get that number of road deaths down by more than 90% in the very near future - possibly even this morning.

[MrToad]

Not to worry - I've done it. Two minutes on Google and we're down to 1,760:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... n-2014.pdf

[TripleS]

... but I believe that it's wrong to stigmatise other drivers for behaviour which deviates from your own. In my opinion, the only benefit in reporting (most) of other drivers' law breaking is to make you feel righteous; the downside is that it makes you feel irritated and so less able to cope with whatever the driving environment may throw at you.

Absolute tosh.

Nope, that will not do. If that's your attitude in response to a well considered opinion/suggestion from a very experienced, skilled, and considerate driver, my communications with you will end forthwith.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[hir]

It's interesting to note your suggestion that I have a 'problem'. Should I stop the tablets, or take more perhaps?

Unfortunately, the solution is not that simple.

I would suggest that you ask your nearest and dearest to club together and buy you either a RoSPA or IAM advanced driving course. From the course you will, inter alia,:

1) However good a driver you already are, you will become a better driver.
2) You will forever notice how much worse all the other drivers are. Even worse than you already perceive them to be. Your current perception of poor driving by other drivers will rise immeasurably.
3) You will acquire the necessary skills, techniques and driving ability to deal with even the most heinous of driving infractions perpetrated by all those terrible drivers you're surrounded by.

Now, I know you're going to say... "why do you think I have to improve my driving, you don't know how I drive, I'm a careful, courteous driver already, it's not me that's the problem, it's all those other idiots out there?". Well, yes, that would be the usual defensive response from most individuals, so I see no problem there. But, let's think about it for a moment. Most accidents/incidents happen when two people make a mistake - for example, a pedestrian steps off the pavement without looking, straight into the path of a driver who is driving too fast for the conditions and not paying attention. Now, none of us, however hard we try is going to be able to influence the driving habits of 16 million UK driving licence holders. The only one that we can change is ourselves. If we can improve our driving to such an extent that we minimise the level of risk we expose ourselves and other road users to [which is what you already do] and at the same time increase our awareness and ability to deal calmly and effectively with the poor driving skills of others [which is where an advanced driving course would help you] then that is probably about as much as we can do in the great scheme of things. Effectively what we're doing is trying to remove one of the parties to the concept of... Most accidents/incidents happen when two people make a mistake.

[kewlcol]

It has been an experience taking a part of this forum. Unfortunately I think it is time to leave. I really am dumbfounded that there are people on here who may think of themselves as 'advanced drivers'.

Mr Toad - you are a complete idiot. Another one I hope I don't meet on the road. I would imagine you are an aggressive driver. And if your driving is as bad as your photography well ......

And Dave - " a very experienced, skilled, and considerate driver". How do you know he is. That's opinion. I might think he is a careless, aggressive nuisance on the road. And I know one thing Dave. I AM an experienced, skilled and considerate driver. More so than many on this forum I would suggest. Can you actually drive?

Hir - I am happy that I'm a good driver. And how do you know I don't hold an IAM membership or belong to a local group of advanced motorists. I do as it 'appens. And I tell you something now. We are all a very friendly bunch. We all respect each others opinions and all share quite similar feelings about road safety and 'other' road users. Your groups may be different but I fit in nicely with mine.

Sorry to be leaving and I thank one or two people for their positive comments. The rest ... well I hope I don't have to share the same road with at any time. Small minded self opinionated smug big headed bastards I think is a fairly loose way of describing you.

[trashbat]

Wow. Well, that was different.

[gannet]

And how do you know I don't hold an IAM membership or belong to a local group of advanced motorists. I do as it 'appens. And I tell you something now. We are all a very friendly bunch. We all respect each others opinions and all share quite similar feelings about road safety and 'other' road users. Your groups may be different but I fit in nicely with mine.

was it me, or did kewlcol on another thread indicate they weren't IAM or ROSPA trained... citing lack of funds...

I suggest we don't feed the trolls anymore...

oh and yes, good post hir

[jcochrane]

And how do you know I don't hold an IAM membership or belong to a local group of advanced motorists. I do as it 'appens. And I tell you something now. We are all a very friendly bunch. We all respect each others opinions and all share quite similar feelings about road safety and 'other' road users. Your groups may be different but I fit in nicely with mine.

was it me, or did kewlcol on another thread indicate they weren't IAM or ROSPA trained... citing lack of funds...

I suggest we don't feed the trolls anymore...

oh and yes, good post hir

Yes I agree with you.