Surprised to be undertaken

[martine]

Failure on my part but I was surprised to be undertaken yesterday.

I was here and spotted a coach in the layby so I moved out to lane 2 partly to keep safe and partly to be courteous in case he was waiting to pull out.

As I passed the coach, a car behind accelerated and undertook which surprised me as I just about to consider moving back to lane 1. I imagine the driver had no idea why I'd moved out to L2 and despite me continuing at the speed limit thought they'd grab the chance to make some progress and ended up being the 'jam in the sandwich' as they timed is so they were alongside both the coach and me.

I guess it's an example of what we do sometimes can be misinterpreted by others. Not sure what I could have done differently apart from perhaps not moving fully into L2 and thus stopping the following driver from even considering an undertake?

[Angus]

Was it an Audi? If so you should've anticipated it

[triquet]

Must admit I've pulled well over to pass buses, particularly if the bus has clearly been sitting for some time. I suppose the best thing is, as you suggest, just pull out a bit but not so far as to be misinterpreted. I wonder what was going through the other persons mind (if anything )?

[trashbat]

It's a balance of probabilities, isn't it.

What's more likely:

(a) that a coach in a layby (why?), not currently indicating, may pull out and force a lane change

or

(b) that a car that has been following, or even gaining, wants to get past you in the same time window - and will undertake to do so

?

IMO, and easy in retrospect, the balance is at least muddy, if not strongly favouring the latter. If it seems like (b), can you do anything to mitigate that new possibility, like accelerate away? If not, then on balance does making the move improve overall safety or introduce probabilistically (!) greater risk?

[Ancient]

Or a) (ii) a dozy passenger who has been let off to stretch their legs walks straight onto the road from behind the coach . That's generally what 'scares me' more.

Following (Audi? ) driver probably thought you had moved to L2 to block an overtake and felt very clever for undertaking , will not have even considered what might be moving in the lay-by. I'd probably have straddled the lines between the lanes (and genuinely annoyed the Audi driver ).

[trashbat]

Personally I wouldn't have moved out in at least in the scenario as I describe it.

If the coach was moving towards the exit, or indicating, yes.

If there was noone behind, possibly.

I might also have accelerated in lane to create space and provide myself with options, depending on the details.

As I say though, easier in hindsight.

[martine]

I'm not a great fan of identifying cars and assigning driver characteristics but FYI the car was a Nissan something boring and a female, young to middle-aged.

I did notice once she'd got past me, she continued to accelerate to well above 40.

The coach wasn't moving or indicating but I think I would do the same again to increase my margin of safety. I think it's pretty unusual for someone to undertake in these circumstances, so 99/100 by moving out I put myself in a better position and may just encourage others to follow?

[triquet]

Just thinking about this again, maybe the offending car was actually over-observing and getting it wrong along the lines of:

"Silly blighter moving over, he's probably going to turn right but isn't signalling ..."
"Is he looking for somewhere?"
"Oops he's going straight on, I'd better *** progress *** a bit to get out of his way ..."
"What bus, I didn't see a bus ..."

[trashbat]

I hadn't looked at the Street View link until now, and had assumed it was a NSL D/C, not that it makes much difference.

Noone else will have a clue what you are doing.

To the casual onlooker, and even to me sometimes if I'm honest, they might wonder what you are doing and probably come to the conclusion that you intend to turn right in whatever distance. That's good enough reason in many people's eyes to pass on the left. They almost certainly wouldn't expect you to return to lane one.

Edit: add to this that the 'get back' arrows & merge point introduces further conflict, and it further reduces any inclination to move out

[Gareth]

I was here and spotted a coach in the layby

Am I going blind? All I can see is an acceleration lane.

[martine]

I was here and spotted a coach in the layby

Am I going blind? All I can see is an acceleration lane.

No you're not but the coach was stationary in the middle of the slip road - not sure how long it had been there and I couldn't tell if the engine was running - to my eyes it looked like they may have been waiting to pull out or they could have been parked/broken down - couldn't tell which.

[OldenBill]

I haven't visited this excellent forum for some time and when I do, I find myself having to update my driving technique. Motoring procedures and traffic flow have altered so much over the many years since I took my test that I find the information gained essential for survival.

However, from reading this thread and similar others, am I picking up from some of the more "philosophical" and tolerant views expressed that overtaking on the nearside is now deemed acceptable on the open road where vehicles are NOT queuing in multiple lanes?

I read one comment to the effect that overtaking in this way is "not illegal .... never has been". Perhaps not illegal but in breach of the Highway Code and surely still likely to inform a prosecution case for due care. If this is the new situation, educational road signs imploring drivers to return to the nearside would appear to be irrelevant.

[vonhosen]

I haven't visited this excellent forum for some time and when I do, I find myself having to update my driving technique. Motoring procedures and traffic flow have altered so much over the many years since I took my test that I find the information gained essential for survival.

However, from reading this thread and similar others, am I picking up from some of the more "philosophical" and tolerant views expressed that overtaking on the nearside is now deemed acceptable on the open road where vehicles are NOT queuing in multiple lanes?

I read one comment to the effect that overtaking in this way is "not illegal .... never has been". Perhaps not illegal but in breach of the Highway Code and surely still likely to inform a prosecution case for due care. If this is the new situation, educational road signs imploring drivers to return to the nearside would appear to be irrelevant.

Yes

Undertaking is not a specific offence & again you are right if it does result in a prosecution it will be under Sec 3 Road Traffic Act 1998 (Careless or Inconsiderate driving).

Many appear to think about careless driving as a question of whether the person committing to the act took care when considering whether to execute & in the execution of the manoeuvre itself. The actual test in legislation though goes further, asking whether the driving fell below the standard expected of a 'competent & careful' driver. Believing you carefully considered & executed the manoeuvre doesn't mean you aren't guilty of the offence. Even if those judging believe to you took care you could still fail the competent part of that test where they judge you fell short of the level of competence expected.

The CPS view (in charging guidance) is that


"There are decided cases that provide some guidance as to the driving that courts will regard as careless or inconsiderate and the following examples are typical of what we are likely to regard as careless driving:

* overtaking on the inside

.....snip

[Gareth]

am I picking up from some of the more "philosophical" and tolerant views expressed that overtaking on the nearside is now deemed acceptable on the open road where vehicles are NOT queuing in multiple lanes?

Notwithstanding vonhosen's excellent contribution, I had understood the issue to be the difference between whether or not one changes lanes in order to pass on the left.

Also, I think queueing isn't a requirement ... so for instance, if I am in lane 1 of a 4-lane motorway and, while maintaining approximately the same (legal) speed, catch up slower traffic in lanes 2 and 3, I find myself unwilling to change lanes 1->2, 2->3, 3->4, 4->3, 3->2, then 2->1 in order to pass vehicles which are being driven contrary to the Highway Code, yet at the same time do not wish to be constrained to travelling at a lower speed.

Specifically, I see a difference between 'passing' and 'overtaking' ...

[trashbat]

By the rulebook anyway, queuing isn't required, congestion is (whatever that means), AND you need to be keeping up with traffic in your lane, meaning that you don't comply if you do it on an otherwise empty road.