Top Gear 'Foundation' - appeal

[martine]

Sorry if my sensibilities don't match those of yours, but some of us liked TG precisely because of those three blokes and their irreverent humour. Far too much PC crap, people being too afraid to show a sense of humour because it might upset somebody? Maybe we should ban the Carry On films too, or in fact most comedy? Clarkson deserved to be sacked for what he did, and I'm sure he's a absolute ass in real life, but despite being past it's prime, TG was actually fun. Before long, we'll be banned from laughing at anything or anybody. Hope you enjoy 5th Gear.

I agree with everything in your post. TG has been 'variable' over the last few years but several items in each series are absolutely stunning...photography, adventure, challenges, vehicles and sentiment and some of the humour is excellent - but other times it's just silly, boring, childish. TG was still a 'must watch' for me - if it does come back, it will be a watered-down, shadow of it's hay days.

[akirk]

It is interesting if you talk to those in photography / lighting in the TV & cinema world - there seems to be a general view that Top Gear represented a radical shift in the way in which filming takes place - much as BBC wildlife before it - lots of fun...

Alasdair

[martine]

It is interesting if you talk to those in photography / lighting in the TV & cinema world - there seems to be a general view that Top Gear represented a radical shift in the way in which filming takes place - much as BBC wildlife before it - lots of fun...

Tell me more?

[akirk]

It is interesting if you talk to those in photography / lighting in the TV & cinema world - there seems to be a general view that Top Gear represented a radical shift in the way in which filming takes place - much as BBC wildlife before it - lots of fun...

Tell me more?

I am not sure I know enough... a friend is a very top end DoP / DoL who has done a lot with the BBC and elsewhere - and more recently a mainstream film... I seem to remember from a conversation that he made reference to changes brought in by the TG team in terms of how they shoot / the way they light / the way they edit...

If you read stig's book (Ben Collins) he talks about how the crew film the cars 'live' (i.e. they risk being run over in order not to miss something) - rather than setting up the cameras and operating them remotely...

sorry I can't elucidate any further...

Alasdair

[Gromit37]

Far too much PC crap, people being too afraid to show a sense of humour because it might upset somebody?

Can you provide an actual solid example of this PC crap please? Preferably one not just along the lines of, 'it was better back when we could laugh at the ethnics', but whatever.

I can provide examples, but I'm not going to, suffice to say that it has nothing to do with " 'it was better back when we could laugh at the ethnics', but whatever."

No doubt your inference being I am somehow racist or prejudiced in my views toward ethnic groups? Which is a fairly big inference from so little information as I doubt you're even aware of my ethnicity, never mind my personal beliefs. I guarantee that I am happy to share this planet with such a diverse population, although unfortunately I haven't yet seen as much of it as I'd like. You might notice that almost all humour is at somebody's expense, be it an individual or a group and is based on stereotypes. The whole world revolves around stereotypes, otherwise we couldn't function as human beings. Stereotypes are not always positive, some are. Either way, there are people and organisations that think that we should avoid upsetting anybody. Much like BRAKE, these poeple have tunnel vision. In a world with around 7 billion people, that might be a rather fruitless endeavour. The real problem is they cannot discern true prejudice and personal freedoms suffer as a result.

I won't be drawn any further, because this is a driving forum, and the topic is TG, which is ostensibly a driving programme. A funny one at times.

[MGF]

Bigots and casual racists contribute to the BBC along with the rest of us. What else does the BBC have to offer these people?

[Gromit37]

I'm sure you can find bigotry and racism on other channels and in other media. I must say, I think regularly seeing footage of British weekend binge drinkers, drug users and other morons staggering around a city centre, throwing up, shouting abuse, fighting and generally making fools of themselves (and also those British holiday makers in Ibiza etc) shows we have greater problems than a bit of p*ss taking on a BBC 2 motoring show. Considering the motoring show regularly take the p*ss out of themselves and the British, whilst those filling up our hospitals and holding cells, costing us millions in NHS and Police resources every year, just keep on doing it and by and large nothing is done to curb it. But hey, let's get our priorities right, Top Gear is public enemy number one.

Jeremy Clarkson got what he deserved for the incident with the producer. He acted like a prize idiot. But the public reactions on both sides have been ridiculous.

[trashbat]

I can provide examples, but I'm not going to, suffice to say that it has nothing to do with " 'it was better back when we could laugh at the ethnics', but whatever."

No doubt your inference being I am somehow racist or prejudiced in my views toward ethnic groups? Which is a fairly big inference from so little information as I doubt you're even aware of my ethnicity, never mind my personal beliefs.

I ask because complaints about the era of political correctness are quite common, often but certainly not exclusively from comfortably-off, middle class white men, and yet very rarely can anyone tell me what they actually mean, other than it was vaguely better when they could better get away with something unpleasant.

Is it perhaps that you can't submerge your head in a vat of boiling acid, in case Jews see it?

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

I feel I ought to offer an apology at this point. I'm one of those wasters who's been cluttering up our hospitals recently. I promise I'm trying to keep it to a minimum though, and hopefully I will be down to a visit once a month or so within this year. Sorry.!

[Gromit37]

I feel I ought to offer an apology at this point. I'm one of those wasters who's been cluttering up our hospitals recently. I promise I'm trying to keep it to a minimum though, and hopefully I will be down to a visit once a month or so within this year. Sorry.!

Apology not accepted on the grounds that I suspect you are being deliberately obtuse. However, should you explain in further detail, I might reconsider. Unfotunately I might be too busy watching Top Gear on Dave.

[Gromit37]

I ask because complaints about the era of political correctness are quite common, often but certainly not exclusively from comfortably-off, middle class white men, and yet very rarely can anyone tell me what they actually mean, other than it was vaguely better when they could better get away with something unpleasant.

Is it perhaps that you can't submerge your head in a vat of boiling acid, in case Jews see it?

It is often the case that those who feel upset/unhappy/insulted by remarks or jokes etc, are not representative of the groups or individuals they feel are being insulted. Quite often, it is a vicarious response and few of those who appear to be the target actually care. In fact, I might suggest that much of the PC crap that I hate is in fact created by the very same demographic that you mention.

I am most certainly not middle class, nor comfortably off financially. I'm not white either, more of a magnolia' with a hint of pink (only if I've had a shower recently, getting progressively darker for the other 364 days each year, but I do change my underwear twice a year... just in case ). Does trying to categorise me by my skin colour, sex and class mean you are stereotyping or worse still, prejudiced in some way? Should I take offence? Let me know if I should be so I can work on appearing upset, even though I couldn't really care less. I am English though, for which I can only apologise... we really were a bunch of self serving, arrogant, pompous, power mad, warmongering sadists throughout much of our history. Now we're just arrogant and pompous. Especially when it comes to 'Advanced Driving', 'Roadcraft' and Pull/Push steering.

PS. I haven't watched the video you linked to yet, but I will shortly.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

It is often the case that those who feel upset/unhappy/insulted by remarks or jokes etc, are not representative of the groups or individuals they feel are being insulted.

Quite right. I'm neither Indian nor Argentinian, but TG's antics in either country, and the reported unrest after their visits, I find embarrassing. I wish we didn't have to send such representatives to other countries, but knew how to behave. I agree that football hooligans, drunken holidaymakers etc. are equally to blame for giving us a poor reputation, but the TG presenters have (had) such a high profile, they're able to wreak more damage than 1000s of such individuals, in a very short time.

[Gromit37]

You may have slightly misunderstood my point. But I won't labour to change what is obviously an entrenched belief on your part. Genuine prejudice, whether based on race, religion, sex or ethnicity is something that needs stamping out. Education is key to this.

There are those that are genuinely upset by things, perhaps with good reason, and those that could be, but are not, also with good reason. Sometimes there is a third group... those that *feel* the latter should be upset by those things or that the former (who may well be a tiny minority, also perhaps for good reason) are somehow more important, or perhaps they just want to join in. This third group can be dangerous because often they have no direct link to the former groups, no real reason to feel aggrieved, but do so anyway. They may have the power to influence the powers that be such that changes are made. Not always for the better. Politicians are often an obvious example of the third group. Some people just like to blow things up out of all proportion and should take a step backwards and look closer before screaming injustice, some just want to jump on a bandwagon and aren't too fussy which one, some are themselves prejudiced (maybe positively as opposed to negatively) and then some will have genuine reason to feel upset and offended.

The ones we need to identify are the latter, and that's when we should fight tooth and nail to rectify predujice and injustice. Everything else is usually down politics or showmanship.

Of the millions of people worldwide who comprise the Top Gear audience, I wonder how many feel that the presenters are showing genuine prejudices?

For my part, any further discussion on the subject is probably best done via PM, as it seems it has nothing to do with driving or even motoring any more.

Regards

Gromit

[MGF]

It might be worth researching the meaning of political correctness before using the term in its perjorative sense. PC isn't about avoiding insulting or offending people. The premise of your argument is flawed.

[Gromit37]

It might be worth researching the meaning of political correctness before using the term in its perjorative sense. PC isn't about avoiding insulting or offending people. The premise of your argument is flawed.

You might want to take a more general view of the term and perhaps also understand that in the context of the Top Gear conversation in this thread, this is a subset of a wider argument, hence the limited interpretation. Unfortunately, having spent several years reading your posts on this forum, I know that you'll just continue talking crap until we all get bored of listening to you. Which in my case, really doesn't take long at all, so have a good night arguing with yourself about your flawed attempt to discredit something that yet again, your myopic vision has failed to see.