"Standard" AD techniques

[jcochrane]

Interested to find out how many folks are from South Wales hopefully I'm not the only one?

Looking to get into mentoring when I feel more 'qualified' to give tips to fellow advanced drivers. Will probably be after my day with CG thinking I'll have a sound understand of the standard variant of advanced techniques then.

Not sure what you mean but CG does have strong views on PP being the only acceptable steering technique and no BGOL. That's about it. It should be remembered though that he taught at Hendon Police Driving School back in the days when these rules were rigidly enforced on trainees. This is no longer the case at Hendon or other Police Schools today.

PS I believe I heard recently that he may have changed his view about BGOL.

[Stephen]

Can you tell me what steering techniques are being taught now instead of PP and which forces are doing it.

[Gareth]

I think he meant about PP-only no longer being rigidly enforced. If you want to know what might be being taught, look at the techniques permitted by the current version of Roadcraft

[jcochrane]

I think he meant about PP-only no longer being rigidly enforced. If you want to know what might be being taught, look at the techniques permitted by the current version of Roadcraft

Thanks Gareth for replying. That was the point I made. My understanding is that the training matrix in Roadcraft is now widely in use.

[Terry Williams]

Speaking to CG a few months ago and he uses BGOL ( towards the end of the braking phase )
for left hand junctions. As mentioned in his DVD's

[Stephen]

I think that you will find the variations are for other types of driving that require altered steering techniques,such as VIP training . There has always been the ability to alter your steering,such as when you only need short turns of the wheel it is acceptable provided your hands do not go past 12 or 6 o'clock if they do then PP is much safer than crossing your arms.

You do what you feel is right at the time and as long as it does not compromise safety whilst carrying it out then it should / will be acceptable on test.

Page 116 of Roadcraft does explain an alternative steering which is Rotational which is mainly for the specialist driving than routine day to day driving. Remember Roadcraft is for emergency services drivers and is used in conjunction with a driving course,and each chapter will be adpapted to the style of driving required.

What you have to realise is that there are very few day to day driving situations that require alternative steering techniques outside PP , perhaps reversing is one that would require rotational.

This is just my opinion but I have been using Roadcraft for 26 yrs + in all types of emergency and pursuit driving and never had to deviate from PP .

[akirk]

What you have to realise is that there are very few day to day driving situations that require alternative steering techniques outside PP , perhaps reversing is one that would require rotational.

that is probably true - but I think the new approach is more about understanding that there are a range of options - knowing their strengths and weaknesses - understanding the context in which to apply them - learning the discernement to choose appropriately as and when...

that might still mean that push-pull is used for a high % of the time, or it might not - that you could use it doesn't necessarily make it best...

I think that for someone wanting to learn a method which works for the majority of the time then it makes sense to teach just one method - but going beyond that in ability means you want to understand and be able to deploy other options even though you might only occasionally use them...

I have never analysed how often I use push-pull, there are certainly times when it feels as though it is the right method - but equally other times when it is not necessarily the most efficient...

if I drive my 1971 landrover it clearly makes a lot more sense with its steering rack / large wheel / etc. to use push pull - but in the z3 with a lot shorter lock-to-lock / power steering / and a different general style of driving and how I take bends / corners - then it makes less sense - I could use it, but I am more likely to deploy a range of styles and feel more comfortable in knowing that I have options

Alasdair

[Stephen]

The point I am making is that you can use whatever method you like as long as it doesn't compromise safety along with not crossing your arms.

One of the main reasons that groups like the IAM and ROSPA only encourage one main technique and that as we know is PP due to the fact that it would be nigh on impossible to show all the different steering techniques and when they should and should not be used.

If you want to learn them all then go onto a track and get someone to show you and practise and see what benefit they hold or do not hold.

[jcochrane]

The point I am making is that you can use whatever method you like as long as it doesn't compromise safety along with not crossing your arms.

One of the main reasons that groups like the IAM and ROSPA only encourage one main technique and that as we know is PP due to the fact that it would be nigh on impossible to show all the different steering techniques and when they should and should not be used.

If you want to learn them all then go onto a track and get someone to show you and practise and see what benefit they hold or do not hold.

This sounds like we are in complete agreement then. I have been using PP as my normal technique for over 60 years now but with occasional predictive steering thrown in. Although for a period I used 10-2 hold I now use 9-3 with neither hand going past 12 or 6. This hold means that the PP (hands moving on the wheel) part is needed less often and mainly for those slower, tighter bends requiring speeds of say 20mph or less. However dogmatic fixation in the belief that PP will always get you out of trouble I would not agree with. When it all starts to go wrong I believe it best to look to the safety point and do what ever you have to, with steering, to aim for it and get out of trouble.

I think we are highjacking this thread, Stephen, and steering has been done to death before. Maybe PM is a better way forward?

PS Although fixed input past 12 or 6 feels right for many, it is not for me, except on track. This is what suits me but not for everyone.

[Stephen]

Agree let them get back to Mentoring

[fengpo]

I recall CG saying bgol was okay turning into a tight narrow country lane. He then went on to explain how getting the braking and gear change done early is the more effective way in his opinion. Then you can trickle round at a snails pace. I used to bgol but now complete separation is my preferred style.

To me there is a standard variant of advanced driving, the by the book Roadcraft/Hendon approach. Just the way I differentiate in my mind.

[Stephen]

Take the debate to the correct one let's not hijack this one it was all going so well keeping on track.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

Split out from the mentoring thread to keep that one clean. Carry on, folks!

[triquet]

I still am not totally convinced about BGOL. As long as the car slows down at the right time under control, and I'm ready to go at the right time in a suitable gear who really gives a rice pudding? It's like arguing about angels dancing on the point of a pin ... emperors new clothes and all that ...

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

To be fair, you drive an auto, though