"Standard" AD techniques

[triquet]

I didn't realise the "appropriate" position was ten to two.

I hold the wheel at 9-3 and I cross my arms at times.

I also use palm steering (only in supermarket car parks where I'm changing into second while negotiating a horrible u turn followed by an s-bend.

Oh God, it's the Newbury Waitrose ...

[Horse]

I also use palm steering (only in supermarket car parks where I'm changing into second while negotiating a horrible u turn followed by an s-bend.

Oh God, it's the Newbury Waitrose ...

;D be going some to get around that one that in 2nd in any car . . .

[TripleS]

I refuse to watch anything that's titled using a split infinitive

I don't want to watch anything that incorporates so much dry steering.

If we really think it's necessary to have demonstrations of how a steering wheel should be handled, it would be best to do it so that we have:

a) an in-car view of the road ahead, and

b) a view over the driver's shoulder so that we can see which steering techniques are being advocated that match each road situation.

OTOH we could very well ignore all that and concentrate on more important matters than how steering wheels are held and manipulated.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

I have to admit I did eventually watch it and my first reaction was "that's a lot of dry steering, the poor car".

[Carbon Based]

If we really think it's necessary to have demonstrations of how a steering wheel should be handled...

Well, it does seem to be a topic that generates a disproportionate amount of heated debate within this and a few other forums. And it is arguably the definitive slur against AD in general so perhaps it might be worth a go.

[Astraist]

OTOH we could very well ignore all that and concentrate on more important matters than how steering wheels are held and manipulated.

Agreed. Concentration, Observation, Anticipation, Planning and Execution (as an output) are more important than the physical car control.

Still, more often than not there is some benefit to be achieved by improving the driver's physical interaction with the controls, including pedals, shifter, seating position and etcetra.

The main improvement comes from achieving the desired steering angle while swapping hand grips as little as possible and using the least effort.

As with many other developments through coaching, the performance might intially worsen since the driver relearns good habits, but over time - an improvement is noted.

Of course the improvment is most notable on high performance driving (not just tarmac tracks requiring little steering), but it's also there in road driving.

PS. Another necessary part of such a demonstration would be to understand the language. And I do not not pretend to understand Romanian (in the video) any better than the next guy. Still, it's the best example of predictive steering I find on record.

Oh, and for a rally car, I think it goes through worst than a bit of dry steering.

[TripleS]

I have been using PP as my normal technique for over 60 years now but with occasional predictive steering thrown in.

....over 60 years....?

But I understood you to be a few years younger than me (or less old, perhaps) and yet I've only clocked up 57 years of not being a slave to any particular steering method. I must have been a late starter at the age of 17.

[TripleS]

What you have to realise is that there are very few day to day driving situations that require alternative steering techniques outside PP , perhaps reversing is one that would require rotational.

This is just my opinion but I have been using Roadcraft for 26 yrs + in all types of emergency and pursuit driving and never had to deviate from PP .

That's fine if it's your preference to use PP almost exclusively, based on your conclusion that other methods are unnecessary, but surely other drivers should be allowed to make their own free choice according to what best suits them, in which case they may find that a variety of steering methods works best for them.

[TripleS]

I still am not totally convinced about BGOL. As long as the car slows down at the right time under control, and I'm ready to go at the right time in a suitable gear who really gives a rice pudding? It's like arguing about angels dancing on the point of a pin ... emperors new clothes and all that ...

It's basically a load of old farts taking something written in the 1930s as gospel ignoring the advent of such things as synchromesh, throttle pedals on the right and the demise of advance/retard levers on the steering wheel, and forever finding strange ways of justifying the One True Way - the latest one being the need to avoid crossing the arms so that when the airbag fires you don't get broken arms. I've pretty much given up on push-pull on the road save for low speed manoeuvring and most of my clients end up the same way after a day of being put into interesting situations to challenge their use of steering.

For me the only things that are really important in these things are safety and smoothness - in that order. I do have a particular dislike of people who BGOL but cannot get the re-engagement smooth. I also have a deep, deep hatred of those who work on the basis of "I do it, therefore it's right and you must do it too..."

In any case, I've yet to find many things in advanced driving which are in any way dependent on the method employed to operate the controls. It's not unknown for me to drive spiritedly using a single finger on the steering wheel, changing gear whilst not being in the correct phase for thumbs up/thumbs down changing and indeed operating all pedals simultaneously. I insist on none of those things nor do I justify any of them as the only true way to drive a car in an 'advanced' manner.

That deserves a thunderous roar of applause: well it gets it from me anyhow.

[TripleS]

Having seen a picture of forearms broken by an airbag, I have to admit it's not something I particularly want to happen, but I'm afraid I do cross my arms (gasp! and on the public road, too ) from time to time.

So do I, and given that an airbag is exceedingly unlikely to go off without being triggered by a heavy shunt, I don't worry about it. There are plenty of other things of more immediate concern; like avoiding having heavy shunts to start with.

[jcochrane]

I have been using PP as my normal technique for over 60 years now but with occasional predictive steering thrown in.

....over 60 years....?

But I understood you to be a few years younger than me (or less old, perhaps) and yet I've only clocked up 57 years of not being a slave to any particular steering method. I must have been a late starter at the age of 17.

I was very fortunate as a child to live in the right place at the right time surrounded by lanes only used occasionally by farmers. The house we moved into, when I was a one year old, was built with a few others in the middle of nowhere. Langs (sp) the builders had intended to build many more but were stopped, by I suppose Green Belt laws, and only restarted building again some 20 years later. Being cut off, as we were, meant I had the freedom to play to my hearts content on broken down bangers lent to me by the farmers. My parents never knew what I was up to and were puzzled, when at the age of 17 and allowed to drive their car under their supervision, that I already knew how to drive.

[TripleS]

Speaking to CG a few months ago and he uses BGOL ( towards the end of the braking phase )
for left hand junctions. As mentioned in his DVD's

What realy annoys me with people like this who now admit to BGOL are so adamant that heel n toe is the ultimate sin. As has been said before it is only BGOL whilst having the means to rev match.

When you see CG please ask him how on earth he rev matches when he BGOL's. I don't accept the usual answer that is "I'm going so slowly it does not matter." There occasions where the speed can be quite high eg. a downhill bend.

In most cases I find my use of BGOL works OK on the low speed basis mentioned by CG, i.e. by the time I'm ready to engage the lower gear, engine speed will be at idling or little more.

Where the speed is much higher, I probably wouldn't use BGOL as it would require the use of heel and toeing, which is a skill I've never bothered to acquire. In these higher speed situations I use initial braking, a DDC downchange and then final braking as appropriate. Not in accordance with The System? Tough.

[TripleS]

Do we not now need some input from vonhosen?

After reading some of the stuff on here, he probably has his head in his hands in despair. When he recovers he might look in and help us out. It's a hell of a job but somebody needs to do it: I can't do it all.

[Silk]

That deserves a thunderous roar of applause: well it gets it from me anyhow.

I'm sure it's all very reassuring for those who can't be bothered.

[TheInsanity1234]

I didn't realise the "appropriate" position was ten to two.

I hold the wheel at 9-3 and I cross my arms at times.

I also use palm steering (only in supermarket car parks where I'm changing into second while negotiating a horrible u turn followed by an s-bend.

Don't. Short shift into second before the bends.

A "'standard' AD technique would be having the correct gear engaged prior to starting your turn into the corner wherever that corner may be.

Forgive me, for I was a learner and it was my first time I'd encountered a car park of any shape or form, so I had an eye on the pedestrian crossing coming up, an eye on the car with its reversing light that had been on for the last 5 minutes, an eye on the car approaching quite quickly behind me.

But seriously, I didn't look at how severe the bend was, and assumed I'd be able to chug around it using the anti-stall in 3rd while hovering my feet over the brake and clutch.
Suffice to say, I was wrong.

I also use palm steering (only in supermarket car parks where I'm changing into second while negotiating a horrible u turn followed by an s-bend.

Oh God, it's the Newbury Waitrose ...

;D be going some to get around that one that in 2nd in any car . . .

It was! Unpleasant shape car park, but I've successfully negotiated it now whilst maintaining very important AD principles, such as pretending to remain calm and collected even when a little 'un has just run out in front of you after a crisp packet!