Whats next?

[clearestimage]

Passed my 8th RoADAR test on Saturday (6th at Gold grade) and now find myself asking what else is out there in terms of advanced driver training.

I have been recommended to look up the HPC but there seems to be two different paths to this. In one direction there is the John Lyon HPC route while another HPC doesn't mention him at all but makes references to a John Miles instead. So If anyone could clarify this and explain any differences I would be grateful.

I want to try and develop my driving skills further but I feel happy with my road driving style.

[Horse]

If you want to be barked at by a Sergeant-Major, John is your man, provided you don't mind having your complete driving style torn down and replaced with an inferior clone of someone else's driving style.

It's also worth noting that Mr Lyon doesn't look like any of the photographs on his website any more. He's significantly older than any of those, being way beyond pensionable age.

So, reading between the lines . . . ?

[clearestimage]

...reading between the lines it would seem that Andy Morrison would be a good next point of contact for me.

Having passed 6 RoADA tests now at Gold grade I would interpret that as meaning there is little wrong with the style of driving I have sculpted out over the years. I am one of those who always wants more though. More refinement, more precision and more finesse. I gave myself a reasonable 7/10 for the test drive on Saturday comparing to what I know I am capable of.

I was interested to read about John Miles 'late apex' method of cornering which seems to describe the way I have come to approach bends without actually know what it was called.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

I have heard from those who've visited him in recent years that John Lyon will very soon be at an age where his ADI certificate will depend on him retaking his ADI tests, and he has no intention of doing so.

He did recently publish a book, which gives a good insight into his approach to advanced driving and his psyche, which might be worth a read before deciding. It seems it's out of print, so you'll have to look for a secondhand copy or pay an absolutely ridiculous price for it, unfortunately.

I'd agree with others and with your own assessment that Andy Morrison would be a very good next point of contact

[Horse]

...reading between the lines it would seem that Andy Morrison would be a good next point of contact for me.

Have a search, there's a recent [good] write-up of [good] sessions with him.

I was interested to read about John Miles 'late apex' method of cornering which seems to describe the way I have come to approach bends without actually know what it was called.

A training mate calls it 'point and squirt' - but he doesn't seem to understand (I've photocpied varies Roadcraft versions' descriptions and marked them up, but he insists on just referring to the old Bluebook diagrams . . . ) that it's just a case of holding the view line (as long as it's 'safe' . . . etc.) until the exit is clearly visible. Then changing line.

So it's not really a 'late' apex, it's just an apex preceded by more 'bend'.

Briefly:

1-2-3 CORNERING SYSTEM Identifies key 'sites' through the corner:

1. First sight of corner.
If safe, move to 'view' position;
Choose suitable speed and gear for corner, decided by amount of road visible;

2. Start of corner:
Maintain 'view' position;
Maintain constant speed, limit point should remain at constant distance;

3. Exit visible (road straightens, limit point 'rises').
If safe, ease bend radius by changing line;
As motorcycle straightens, accelerate.

Or: If next corner visible, start again at '1'.

One point rarely mentioned, is to take a 'wider' line or 'ease the bend radius', as it's often explained, actually requires an initial tighter turn. On a motorcycle, if you already have bits of metal dragging on the deck, your options to turn tighter are 'limited'

[Horse]

He did recently publish a book, which gives a good insight into his approach to advanced driving and his psyche, which might be worth a read before deciding. It seems it's out of print, so you'll have to look for a secondhand copy or pay an absolutely ridiculous price for it, unfortunately.

FIFTY FOUR QUID

[martine]

I have heard from those who've visited him in recent years that John Lyon will very soon be at an age where his ADI certificate will depend on him retaking his ADI tests, and he has no intention of doing so.

That's news to me...I've never heard of a cut-off age where you have to retake the ADI tests - are you sure you're not confusing this with the regular ADI 'standards check' that all ADI's have to pass to remain on the register (every 2-5 years)?

[martine]

clearestimage: Have you ever attended an ADUK driving day? Great way to evaluate your driving against others in a friendly non-stressful way...and also discuss options face-to-face with those that have progressed in different directions.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

I have heard from those who've visited him in recent years that John Lyon will very soon be at an age where his ADI certificate will depend on him retaking his ADI tests, and he has no intention of doing so.

That's news to me...I've never heard of a cut-off age where you have to retake the ADI tests - are you sure you're not confusing this with the regular ADI 'standards check' that all ADI's have to pass to remain on the register (every 2-5 years)?

I couldn't find any corroborating evidence either, but I guess it happens at 70. This was something said by JL himself to a client, so unless he's got it wrong himself, I see no reason to question it.

[akirk]

...reading between the lines it would seem that Andy Morrison would be a good next point of contact for me.

yes

having done this at the beginning of the year, I can recommend it whole-heartedly

Alasdair

[dvenman]

Advanced Book Exchange (abebooks.co.uk), using John Lyon as the author and "Advanced Driving" as keywords, shows books in the order of £26, second hand - if it interests you.

And Clive Jones is the other HPC gatekeeper and is based near Bridgend if he's closer to you. My understanding is they're both as good as each other, if with different styles of imparting knowledge.

[Gareth]

If anyone could clarify this and explain any differences I would be grateful.

Are you able to go to the ADUK Driving Day in early June? If you do you'll find better answers to your questions.

[Horse]

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/Searc ... y&x=9&y=14

As an alternative?

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=expert+driving+the+police+way&x=9&y=14

As an alternative?

<nods> I learnt a lot more from that one.

[Horse]

Ditto

It includes the Fangio 'pink faces' story, which I think I've seen more-recently attributed to Senna or Mansell . . .