IAM masters/RoSPA gold?

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

Well I'm pleased to say I'm still a RoSPA Advanced Tutor, therefore still Gold, as of about 90 minutes ago. It still felt pretty difficult. I can't say if IAM Masters would be more difficult, or not.

[true blue]

Reducing the speed limit in accident blackspots may not be the answer but possibly its better than doing nothing and waiting for the next fatality

But just changing the number on the stick will do nothing. It doesn't even tally with using the three 'E's as there's no education, no change in engineering that would make the road safer and unless you're particularly unlucky, no enforement either.

That said, I always feel more self-conscious if I take a flexible view of a 50 limit than NSL. Perhaps the theory behind the new, lower limits hinges on an inate sense of guilt that every Englishman is born with?

On the other hand, if I lived in Gloucestershire I might feel differently. Happily Cambridgeshire and Suffolk (my usual playgrounds) are sufficiently behind the times that they've not caught up with the latest speed reduction fetish.

[RobC]

Would you consider the drivers on the original Italian Job as "Advanced Drivers" (the characters, not the actors)?

Stunt driving is not the same skill, they may be skilled drivers but they cant call themselves IAM or Rospa members unless they are.

[Gareth]

Based on my observations, whenever there's been a bad shunt on rural roads in our part of the country, there's a clamour for a reduced speed limit on that section of road. What these people fail to recognise is that many of these shunts happen to people who take no notice of the limits anyhow; so lowering the limit isn't going to help.

Reducing the speed limit in accident blackspots may not be the answer but possibly its better than doing nothing and waiting for the next fatality

If, as TripleS suggests, those who had accidents weren't abiding by the prevailing speed limit, then all that reducing the speed limit does is penalise those who do abide by it. I would have thought this would be easy to understand.

[RobC]

Would you consider the drivers on the original Italian Job as "Advanced Drivers" (the characters, not the actors)?

Stunt driving is not the same skill, they may be skilled drivers but they cant call themselves IAM or Rospa members unless they are.

Or do you think AD begins and ends with those two organisations?

Certainly not it depends on our definition of advanced, but driving down sewers and on the roofs of buildings isn't mine
There are lots of other organisations and courses and the basic IAM with a pass rate of 90% isn't the most difficult to achieve.
Other advanced drivers include the National Express Advanced Driver Course, DVSA Driving Examiners, DVSA Fleet, Cardington Special Test, MoD EFAD, Regimental Staff car Course Car, Defence Staff Car Course Car, Wedgewood Vehicle Advanced Course Commercial, Bentley Chauffeurs Course, DIA DipDE, the list goes on.

I assess full licence holders in my job every day. There are lots of drivers with advanced skills without qualification. If you asked me who was the more advanced driver, one of the Italian Job stunt drivers or someone who had passed their basic IAM 30 years ago, I wouldn't be able to make that judgement without first assessing their driving.

What would be your definition of AD?

[MGF]

Political limits that have nothing whatsoever to do with road safety can be found all over.

This comment a better example of limited thinking. Road safety is very much a political issue.

[MGF]

Sounds like a boy racers charter. Unfortunately Speed limits ARE a target to some.
What you would find is a lot more 17 to 24 year olds killing themselves driving their Corsa's albeit at perfectly legal speeds .

I doubt a change to the speed limit would do anything to the accident rate as it is relatively ignored once traffic density is reduced.

If that were the case it would be pointless having speed limits

Speed limits probably have little or no effect on those who seek excitement and risk from their driving.

Generally though , people drive at a speed they feel comfortable driving at. Exceeding the speed limit, for many, is uncomfortable due to the risk of being caught. For most of us speed limits do have an effect on speed if only by limiting the extent of the excess speed.

[RobC]

Hi MGF

I fully agree with your comments for most drivers, however I drove with many 17/18 year olds when I taught learners and had many young (mainly male) drivers who saw changes of speed limit as a target.

True they may be seeking excitement and perhaps also under peer pressure, however one of the main problems is a non mature frontal lobe in 17 to 24 year olds and subsequent failure to assess risk.
If they thought they were going to die or be seriously injured then perhaps they would drive differently

Rob

[Horse]

If they thought they were going to die or be seriously injured then perhaps they would drive differently

Do any drivers, excepting a few who are truly suicidal, deliberately make choices which they know make result in death or serious injury? Surely most make decisions they - rightly or wrongly - think they'll get away with . . .

[RobC]

If they thought they were going to die or be seriously injured then perhaps they would drive differently

Do any drivers, excepting a few who are truly suicidal, deliberately make choices which they know make result in death or serious injury? Surely most make decisions they - rightly or wrongly - think they'll get away with . . .

Agree they probably think they're going to get away with it. The trrouble is some drivers assess risk better than others, some are inexperienced, others are risk takers, some have an over favourable opinion of their driving ability or a combination of all those. If they knew they would be killed or seriously injured then they would no doubt drive differently..... (unless as you say they are suicidal)

[akirk]

If they thought they were going to die or be seriously injured then perhaps they would drive differently

Do any drivers, excepting a few who are truly suicidal, deliberately make choices which they know make result in death or serious injury? Surely most make decisions they - rightly or wrongly - think they'll get away with . . .

I think that they frequently make those decisions deliberately - but the disconnect lies in not accepting / seeing / understanding the link between those decisions and the likely consequences...

Alasdair

[Horse]

If they thought they were going to die or be seriously injured then perhaps they would drive differently

Do any drivers, excepting a few who are truly suicidal, deliberately make choices which they know make result in death or serious injury? Surely most make decisions they - rightly or wrongly - think they'll get away with . . .

I think that they frequently make those decisions deliberately - but the disconnect lies in not accepting / seeing / understanding the link between those decisions and the likely consequences...

OK, so when even 'advanced' drivers can make mistakes, how can that be changed?

[JamesAllport]

What would be your definition of AD?

Someone who appreciates that there's always something new to learn and that they're only as good as the worst bit of their last drive.

James

[Horse]

What would be your definition of AD?

Someone who appreciates that there's always something new to learn and that they're only as good as the worst bit of their last drive.

So you could be an advanced driver but still be totally sh1t as long as you realised it?

[akirk]

Do any drivers, excepting a few who are truly suicidal, deliberately make choices which they know make result in death or serious injury? Surely most make decisions they - rightly or wrongly - think they'll get away with . . .

I think that they frequently make those decisions deliberately - but the disconnect lies in not accepting / seeing / understanding the link between those decisions and the likely consequences...

OK, so when even 'advanced' drivers can make mistakes, how can that be changed?

Sadly - you can't remove all mistakes, humans are fallible!

What would be your definition of AD?

Someone who appreciates that there's always something new to learn and that they're only as good as the worst bit of their last drive.

So you could be an advanced driver but still be totally sh1t as long as you realised it?

maybe need to add to James' description...
both of those are true, but it also sits alongside a certain ability level or higher - and an understanding of their driving in the scale of what is possible, and a desire to move along that scale...

Alasdair