DVSA examiners

[Matt62]

Well I suppose I am guilty of making an assumption, but many of the contributors to this site and probably all of us who have passed advanced tests refer regularly to Roadcraft; which does after all have significant connections to Police driver training.
There is also a certain (deserved in my view) deference towards the views of Police drivers on this and other similar sites.
In addition to this Police or ex Police drivers are heavily represented in 'advanced' driving - training, examining etc. and most of us seem to have good experiences of these individuals.

[WhoseGeneration]

Well I suppose I am guilty of making an assumption, but many of the contributors to this site and probably all of us who have passed advanced tests refer regularly to Roadcraft; which does after all have significant connections to Police driver training.
There is also a certain (deserved in my view) deference towards the views of Police drivers on this and other similar sites.
In addition to this Police or ex Police drivers are heavily represented in 'advanced' driving - training, examining etc. and most of us seem to have good experiences of these individuals.

It was the "in 'civilian' mode as role models" I was questioning, hence my selective quoting of your post.

[jcochrane]

Well I suppose I am guilty of making an assumption, but many of the contributors to this site and probably all of us who have passed advanced tests refer regularly to Roadcraft; which does after all have significant connections to Police driver training.
There is also a certain (deserved in my view) deference towards the views of Police drivers on this and other similar sites.
In addition to this Police or ex Police drivers are heavily represented in 'advanced' driving - training, examining etc. and most of us seem to have good experiences of these individuals.

The further I've delved into advanced driving and been willing to look beyond the familiar, comfortable confines of IAM, RoADA and Police driving the more I've come to understand there is much more to it than I had previously realised. Role models then change.

[Stephen]

I voice my opinion on the declining standards of driving from all quarters of the motoring public whether on 2 wheels right through to 12 wheels whether we drive for a living or just drive to work.

I am out there day in and day out going to the collisions seeing the poor driving along with the aggressive drivers along with the drivers who use their phone,speed,no seat belt cross solid white lines on the on and off the Motorway park within the confines of crossings the list goes on.

I also deal with incidents captured on CCTV cameras and from motorists who send in footage from dash cams, this along with my numerous colleagues who have there own work which we share and discuss,my opinion is from real life dealings not from Freedom of information requests or stats 19s.

So,for me that is my evidence that driving standards are declining or declined should I say, and a lot of it is due to having less traffic cops out there to Police the roads at times when these offences are being comitted.

If it was left to me the DVSA test at present would be at a basic advanced level with the basic advanced level being either the equivelent to a first or gold in terms of organisations standards.
I would have two parts to the ADI system one to teach PLH and the other to teach FLH and you either pass both or stick to one, but that is my opinion.

I was once a member of public you know before I joined the Police in fact a LGV driver for 15yrs then I got trained to drive for a living I wasnt born into the job, not everyone has the ability to become a Police advanced driver and that goes for Police officers as well there are ones who have been told that they have not got what it takes to drive to AD standard even after about 4 seperate Advanced courses.

I think everyone gets hung up about Police driving in the sense of that they have to try and drive as fast as them , that couldnt be more further from the truth, what can be acheived though is the polish the smoothness and everything else that is associated with pure AD like commentry and Observations and linking them together.

As for Observing skills thats a different story all together and like driving there are different standards of Observers due to their experience and enthusiasm perhaps a different thread . After all we are all driving enthusiasts, we all need to just focus on how good we are and not be too critical about others, and continue to do what we do and that is to try and make the roads a lot more safer to drive on.

[Kimosabe]

Well I suppose I am guilty of making an assumption, but many of the contributors to this site and probably all of us who have passed advanced tests refer regularly to Roadcraft; which does after all have significant connections to Police driver training.
There is also a certain (deserved in my view) deference towards the views of Police drivers on this and other similar sites.
In addition to this Police or ex Police drivers are heavily represented in 'advanced' driving - training, examining etc. and most of us seem to have good experiences of these individuals.

The further I've delved into advanced driving and been willing to look beyond the familiar, comfortable confines of IAM, RoADA and Police driving the more I've come to understand there is much more to it than I had previously realised. Role models then change.

+1

My role models for driving are, to date, the AD associated people I have driven with who are outside of organisations.

[Matt62]

Well I suppose I am guilty of making an assumption, but many of the contributors to this site and probably all of us who have passed advanced tests refer regularly to Roadcraft; which does after all have significant connections to Police driver training.
There is also a certain (deserved in my view) deference towards the views of Police drivers on this and other similar sites.
In addition to this Police or ex Police drivers are heavily represented in 'advanced' driving - training, examining etc. and most of us seem to have good experiences of these individuals.

It was the "in 'civilian' mode as role models" I was questioning, hence my selective quoting of your post.

Oh, Sorry - just a clumsy way of saying that we would probably not want to emulate driving techniques that are only appropriate for police work.

[WhoseGeneration]

It was the "in 'civilian' mode as role models" I was questioning, hence my selective quoting of your post.

Oh, Sorry - just a clumsy way of saying that we would probably not want to emulate driving techniques that are only appropriate for police work.

In 'civilian mode' many Police drivers and riders are quite happy to drive and ride let's say, enthusiastically. Publically I won't give exact examples from my experience.
At work, they have to follow the top down, PC driven instructions, with, nowadays, less discretion allowed. Remember how target driven the Public Sector now is.
Roadcraft only descibes how to drive safely with progress, there's nowt about "only appropriate for police work". Otherwise Roadcraft wouldn't be in the public domain.

[RobC]

I am out there day in and day out going to the collisions seeing the poor driving along with the aggressive drivers along with the drivers who use their phone,speed,no seat belt cross solid white lines on the on and off the Motorway park within the confines of crossings the list goes on.

I also deal with incidents captured on CCTV cameras and from motorists who send in footage from dash cams, this along with my numerous colleagues who have there own work which we share and discuss,my opinion is from real life dealings not from Freedom of information requests or stats 19s.

So,for me that is my evidence that driving standards are declining or declined should I say, and a lot of it is due to having less traffic cops out there to Police the roads at times when these offences are being comitted.

If it was left to me the DVSA test at present would be at a basic advanced level with the basic advanced level being either the equivelent to a first or gold in terms of organisations standards.
I would have two parts to the ADI system one to teach PLH and the other to teach FLH and you either pass both or stick to one, but that is my opinion.

Hi Stephen

I agree with nearly all you say especially that our own opinions are formed by our real life dealings. In my job I travel around 40,000 miles a years so am out on the road day in day out like yourself. I see examples of driving both good and bad, but unlike yourself in your role I don't actually see many collisions. I assess full licence holders for a living and in my experience, the average standard of driving is good, especially when compared with drivers that I assess from other countries.

I imagine if my personal experience was to be called out to collisions then my opinion may be different but statistics are relevant at looking at the overall picture. If not its a bit like a doctor saying that health standards are declining because he sees only ill people

As far as the DVSA test is concerned it is a lot harder to pass than most people realise. Many full licence holders would fail the theory test and the practical test if they retook their test.

The ADI qualification includes training and examination to teach at all levels including FLHs. There are around 44,000 ADIs and most do train PLHs. The 2,000 or so ADIs that train FLHs will almost all be DVSA Fleet registered trainers..

Rob

[Gareth]

Roadcraft only descibes how to drive safely with progress, there's nowt about "only appropriate for police work". Otherwise Roadcraft wouldn't be in the public domain.

Whilst this is true, the amount of progress available to a civilian driver is such that much that is described is, how can I say it, less than appropriate when shoehorned into a civilian training program.

I'm not sure I'd agree; I think very little (if any) Roadcraft content is less than appropriate to civilian driving. Do you have specific parts of the book in mind? I'd agree if you were meaning police driver training, though.

[hir]

I am out there day in and day out going to the collisions seeing the poor driving along with the aggressive drivers along with the drivers who use their phone,speed,no seat belt cross solid white lines on the on and off the Motorway park within the confines of crossings the list goes on.

I admire he work that you do, but is it possible that the nature of it has skewed your perception of driving standards?

Are you comparing like for like? For comparison purposes the real question is... in your experience are there more road traffic incidents now than there were (say) ten years ago and, if there has been an increase, is the cause of that increase the lowering of driving standards or some other factor over those ten years?

I don't know. I'm just asking.

[jcochrane]

I am out there day in and day out going to the collisions seeing the poor driving along with the aggressive drivers along with the drivers who use their phone,speed,no seat belt cross solid white lines on the on and off the Motorway park within the confines of crossings the list goes on.

I admire he work that you do, but is it possible that the nature of it has skewed your perception of driving standards?

Are you comparing like for like? For comparison purposes the real question is... in your experience are there more road traffic incidents now than there were (say) ten years ago and, if there has been an increase, is the cause of that increase the lowering of driving standards or some other factor over those ten years?

I don't know. I'm just asking.

You make a good point and opens up many sub topics, many of which have been discussed before. I think it is difficult to come to any firm conclusion.
However, what does appear to have changed, in my view and it can only be a subjective view, is that attitudes have changed for the worst over the years and I think this has contributed to the accidents and near misses that I constantly witness on my daily drives.

[Stephen]

Rob,
I dont want to start a war on differences between training but can you clarify your quote and give me an example of the ADI test no other extra gained qualifications that you may have "The ADI qualification includes training and examination to teach at all levels including FLHs"
I know part three could include an extended test, what I am interested in is the training that you receive during your three part ADI training that gives you the ADI the right to teach to Advanced level apart from the certificate of the ADI that says you can charge for training for me the DI training is all based around PLH or have I got it wrong.

[jcochrane]

Rob,
I dont want to start a war on differences between training but can you clarify your quote and give me an example of the ADI test no other extra gained qualifications that you may have "The ADI qualification includes training and examination to teach at all levels including FLHs"
I know part three could include an extended test, what I am interested in is the training that you receive during your three part ADI training that gives you the ADI the right to teach to Advanced level apart from the certificate of the ADI that says you can charge for training for me the DI training is all based around PLH or have I got it wrong.

Thank you Stephen for asking this question.

[chrisl]

The stuff about observation and planning is applicable. The sections about steering method and abhorrence of gear overlap far less so. If you consider that Police Drivers will be right on the limit (if not over) point at all times where, in my experience, few civilian drivers are (I'm certainly not), then a manual set around that premise becomes less appropriate.

Is there an alternative manual that you would recommend? I've got Roadcraft and Mind Driving.

[chrisl]

Fair enough, thank you. (Although I do find it helpful to read the theory behind all this, including different opinions.)