The Value Of Going To A Top Professional Coach

Discussion on Advanced and Defensive Driving.

Postby jcochrane » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:25 am


Yesterday I was in Banbury taking coaching from a top professional coach. Always enjoyable and rewarding. I'm constantly amazed how he picks up on tiny things that you miss yourself. You know your driving is not quite up to scratch but can't put your finger on it. 5 areas were identified in my case. All were immediately and easily rectified transforming the drive into something special, it felt right and very satisfying. Just goes to show how minor tweaks can make so much difference. However I could never have identified and made these changes without that professional input.

Have others found the same?
jcochrane
 
Posts: 1877
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 2:52 pm
Location: East Surrey and wherever good driving roads can be found.

Postby Astraist » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:53 am


Oh yes, and you can count me as clear of any "commercial" interest, as it were.

Even Top Professional Drivers have Top Professional Coaches.

The point being that a third-party analyses your driving better than yourself, not least because they are not driving the car at the same time as analysing, as you are...

In that regard, the coach needn't be a better driver than the client, but rather a good observer of the driving of others, and paying attention to small details indeed helps.

The coach is also not necessarily the most clear and memorable "teacher", but rather gives just enough guidance for the client to figure the problm (and solution) on their own.
User avatar
Astraist
 
Posts: 811
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:39 pm




Postby akirk » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:21 am


totally - he transformed my driving & how I think about driving - need to book in another session!

Alasdair
akirk
 
Posts: 668
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:07 am
Location: Cotswolds

Postby Mike H » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:24 am


Yes! I had the same experience a couple of months ago and came away with several development points.

I'm currently working on these and then going back in a few weeks time for the full monty. It was an extremely worthwhile experience and it always amazes me how much more there is to learn.
IAM; RoADAR
User avatar
Mike H
 
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:51 pm
Location: Cotswolds

Postby martine » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:27 am


I reckon a good coach adjusts their level to match...they might be small things to focus on for a driver that's further up the ladder - but they might not even be discussed (let alone worked on) with a driver who is having more ...errr...basic issues.

As you know, I 've spent a shared day with aforementioned Andy Morrison and his coaching style certainly matches my learning style - but everyone's different.
Martin - Bristol IAM: IMI National Observer and Group Secretary, DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)
martine
 
Posts: 4430
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:49 pm
Location: Bristol, UK




Postby Astraist » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:16 pm


Indeed.

I have said before that our Advanced Driving schools were established by drivers and coaches with a background in Motorsport.

Most of them are track drivers and when they drive (and I am talking about several unrelated individuals), they drive almost identically to one another, even in different cars.

Others, who had made a career in road rallying sliding about, drive quite differently even on the same car. In those instances when they drive or coach together, it is just a precious thing to behold.

The differences in lap times and/or how much of the budget they are using, is there (not unlike your comparison of yourself and Hugh Noblett a while back) but it's not as pronounced as it would seem in the cockpit.
User avatar
Astraist
 
Posts: 811
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:39 pm




Postby Silk » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:44 pm


Although I'm broadly in agreement with the driver being more important than the car, I feel there's an element of diminishing returns once you get to a certain level of competence. In the end, road driving isn't actually that difficult - attitude and a healthy sense of survival are much more important than absolute skill, IMO.
Silk
 
Posts: 1033
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:03 pm

Postby akirk » Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:01 pm


Silk wrote:In the end, road driving isn't actually that difficult


but driving well is far more challenging :)

Alasdair
akirk
 
Posts: 668
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:07 am
Location: Cotswolds

Postby gannet » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:15 pm


Well I'm long overdue a session with a coach - roll on September :D 8)
-- Gannet.
Membership Secretary, East Surrey Group of Advanced Motorists
Driving: Citroen DS3 DSport 1.6THP / MINI Cooper Coupe :D
Riding: Airnimal Joey Sport... (helps with the commute into London during the week!)
ImageImage
gannet
 
Posts: 589
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:19 pm
Location: Surrey

Postby zadocbrown » Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:05 am


I'd add that, particularly at higher levels, the best coaches are those who know what [b]not[\b] to pick up on.
zadocbrown
 
Posts: 929
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:52 pm

Postby TripleS » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:55 am


Silk wrote:Although I'm broadly in agreement with the driver being more important than the car, I feel there's an element of diminishing returns once you get to a certain level of competence. In the end, road driving isn't actually that difficult - attitude and a healthy sense of survival are much more important than absolute skill, IMO.


That's very much my feeling too, but I'm still interested in hearing just what additional benefits emerge from sessions with top professional coaches, when a driver is already at a very high level - HPC standard etc. I don't doubt that further improvements can be made, and they may greatly please the client, but how much benefit they actually add in safe, smooth and swift driving is not yet clear to me.

Please accept that I'm not wishing to be dismissive or provocative, but I'm still not seeing it though I might, one day.

Best wishes all,
Dave.
TripleS
 
Posts: 6025
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:47 pm
Location: Briggswath, Whitby

Postby jcochrane » Wed Jul 15, 2015 10:41 am


TripleS wrote:...but how much benefit they actually add in safe, smooth and swift driving is not yet clear to me.

This is a question that can apply to many things in life. In driving the vast majority are more than happy to take no further training after getting a licence. They will feel content and comfortable with their level of safety, smoothness and swiftness and quite understanably see no reason why they need to do anything more.

This is a problem that IAM and RoADA have, to convince people that there is benefit in giving time, money and effort to improve.

Interestingly AD organisations do have a number levels/standards that those interested can train to achieve. IAM have pass, F1RST, Masters and Masters distinction. RoADA have bronze, silver and gold. HPC have higher levels for members of Silver and Gold.

For myself I am passionate about driving and it is also a hobby/pastime and in the same way if I felt like that for golf or tennis etc. I would like to learn as much about it as possible and be as good at it as I am capable of being and to that end seek out a good professional coach. Not only to help me become better but also to ensure my standard is not slipping.

I can not pull off the perfect drive so as far as I am concerned I always have room for improvement.
jcochrane
 
Posts: 1877
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 2:52 pm
Location: East Surrey and wherever good driving roads can be found.

Postby trashbat » Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:31 pm


I've reached a point where I've become comfortable with my current level, not least factoring in utility (I simply drive less at the mo) versus the costs in terms of money, time & effort to improve further.

Nonetheless, I can see that another way of looking at it would be to turn it on its head.

What would you willingly sacrifice from your current repertoire & skill set? So if you've got smooth gear changes nailed, and perhaps even derive some satisfaction from that, would you be happy if you couldn't quite manage it any more?

With that in mind, if Hypothetical Future You had been through coaching, and it's probably a given that they would have improved a bunch of stuff through this, would they be happy to give up that progress too? If not, why stop where you are?
Rob - IAM F1RST, Alfa Romeo 156 JTS
trashbat
 
Posts: 764
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:11 pm
Location: Hampshire

Postby akirk » Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:12 pm


the analogy of musicians has been used before on here...

if someone can play a violin concerto, is that enough - or is there some deep inbuilt satisfaction in playing it better, in mastering it, in placing your own interpretation on it...?

why does a violinist carry on once they have got to various levels? Grade 5 used to be considered the place at which you had a skill for life, and where you could play well enough to enjoy - maybe similar to being able to drive safely, but there is still so much further to go - grade 8 is considered the point at which you can teach beginners - then diplomas, then into the world of professional musicians... As a musician myself, it is easy to see each side, I play some instruments to a high level, and then others I play just for fun, to improvise - but there is a deep satisfaction in getting better...

sadly we live in a world now of superficiality and surface / instant satisfaction, and less and less do people pursue the depth of enjoyment and reward in persevering with something to a high level...

what I don't understand (and maybe others can explain) is the apparent contradiction in someone having sufficient interest in Advanced Driving to be a regular member of this forum - yet having no interest in improving their own driving!

Alasdair
akirk
 
Posts: 668
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:07 am
Location: Cotswolds

Postby Silk » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:34 pm


akirk wrote:what I don't understand (and maybe others can explain) is the apparent contradiction in someone having sufficient interest in Advanced Driving to be a regular member of this forum - yet having no interest in improving their own driving!


That's because you're making the assumption that everyone is into Advanced Driving for the same reasons. My interest is mainly because I'm a business driver and most of my driving is on main roads and in traffic - my reasons for wanting to be a better driver are probably a lot different to the majority of posters on here. I don't tend to do a great deal of driving outside of work, unless it's taking part in IAM or ADUK events.

Although it can be fun, most of the stuff that people on here seem to enjoy is less relevant once you get away from the quieter roads where this kind of driving can be practiced. Note that I didn't say it was unimportant, just not as important for me. I actually enjoy traffic and main roads at least as much as the B roads.

For me, safety, smoothness, economy and interaction with other road users take precedence over progress. I find I rarely if ever have to worry about the more "sporty" aspects of driving such as handling, grip, feedback etc. as the majority of my driving is carried out well within the limits of the car.

This is why I believe professional coaching would probably be a waste of time and money in my case. That doesn't mean I believe it would be the case for everyone or even that I wouldn't learn from the experience, just that I don't believe it would be worth the expense.

I hope that clears things up a bit and goes someway to explaining the "friction" between me and other members of the forum.
Silk
 
Posts: 1033
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:03 pm

Next

Return to Advanced Driving Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


cron