Ah, well, me thinks someone has forgotten I'm registered on here to!
That filtering motorcyclist was me!
To "even the score" a little, I thought maybe a cut and past of my reply to Soren would be appreciated on here as well....
As promised Soren, I'll do my best to reply to your points. You're against filtering, and you investigate accidents for a living, so I don't stand a chance of convincing you, but I'll waste my time anyway
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You say "about 5 cars up a blue van moves right out onto the chevrons (broken white line) and I think "Pillock, trying to block me" and slow down to about 20mph. " What was your speed when you got to the 5th car behind, and did you think that this speed, or even 20 miles per hour was an appropriate speed for the circumstances?
My speed was approximately 30mph and braking as I was pretty much at the back of the queue and just coming upon it (I had passed maybe two or three cars)!
My speed in regard to 20mph was in my opinion appropriate. I had no reason to believe any other vehicle was going to enter the hatched area and drive into my path which was clear as far as the eye could see.
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What length of skid mark did you leave? and did you brake using both front and rear brakes? What do you believe your impact speed was?
There is no visible skid mark on the road, and the section of tyre I believe may have skidded is no more than a few centimetres long. I braked using both brakes whilst also sounding my horn. I would estimate impact speed to have been 10 - 15 mph.
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The highway code says "138: Before overtaking you should make sure the road is sufficiently clear ahead." It obviously wasn't, so why did you consider an overtake?
Yes, it was. The other vehicle entered my path during my manouvre.
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The highway code also says "139: Overtake only when it is safe to do so. You should not get too close to the vehicle you intend to overtake . You should stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues." Why did you not give any heed to this advice?
I had no oncoming traffic and the addition of a hatched area to use to overtake. As a motorcyclist it is standard practice (and recognised in both the DSA's Motorcycle Riding book and Motorcycle Roadcraft). The size of a motorcycle makes overtaking in such situations far more of an option than it would be in a car or other vehicle with four wheels. I had at least 1 metre between myself and the line of traffic I was overtaking.
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The highway code also says (in respect of large vehicles, but is applicable in this circumstance) " You should make sure that you have enough room to complete your overtaking manoeuvre before committing yourself." Was there a point where you could see your overtaking manoeuvre being completed?
Having undertaken advanced instruction and being a reasonably experienced motorcyclist I always ensure I am scanning far enough ahead to see places where I can rejoin the line of traffic should the need arise.
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The highway code also says "143: DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example where traffic is queuing at junctions or road works " Again you have not heeded this advice. Why?
The only way I could have come into conflict with another road user would have been (as is the case) the other road user entered my path. had he indicated his intention to do so, I would have taken the appropriate steps.
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Road safety guidelines are there to make each party consider safety so that in many cases if one person transgresses those guidelines, the other person's correct behaviour may prevent a collision. In this case deviation from advised safe driving has occurred by both parties, hence both IMO should have a proportion of blame to shoulder.
I disagree. I was performing a safe and legal manouvre, recognised by Motorcycle Roadcraft, Motorcycle Traffic officers, and pretty much any motorcyclist you may meet. Another vehicle, without indication, entered my path without performing the correct and necessary observations and accelerating while performing his manouvre.
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Clearly the other driver has a responsibility to check his mirror and make sure the road is clear prior to making the manoeuvre. But in his own defence he would quite rightly say (quoting H/C) that he really had no reason to expect someone to be overtaking him in such a situation.
The Highway code is a set of (mostly) guidelines. It is not exhaustive and is, in affect, best practice. The real world is somewhat different. Whilst motorcyclists are (and are likely to always be) the minority, even anti bike people have to accept our prescence on the road, and more importantly, be aware of it at all times - I believe you'll find the Highway Code Rule 187: It is often difficult to see motorcyclists and cyclists especially when they are coming up from behind, coming out of junctions and at roundabouts. Always look out for them when you are emerging from a junction.
Accepted, he wasn't emerging from a junction, but the observations needed to perform a U turn are just as important and relevant.
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The van driver is probably more to blame in my view than you Dave, but I'd contend that you have to accept that when 'filtering' in such a way, you are automatically putting yourself into the 'blame frame'.
I'd be interested to know what you mean by "filtering in such a way"
I was well within the speed limit, and a speed I considered safe for the circumstances. I had a 1 metre gap between myself and the vehicles I was passing, meaning that should anyone in that queue perform a mirror check, I would be clearly visible. I had my dipped beam headlights on. The road was dry and visibility good. And perhaps most importantly, I was heeding the advice given on paghe 140 of Mtorocycle Roadcraft in regard to filtering.
Like I said in my opening paragraph, I have little doubt you will, as an experienced investigator (and anti filtering type ) be able to pick holes in all of my answers. I bid you good luck - fortunately you are not the one apportioning blame in this case (that I know of, and if you are, can we have a chat about ethics? ).
However, I do hope that my answers have gone some way to explaining my actions to you, and the actions of so many other motorcyclists day in day out!
Oh, and finally, a couple of quotes from the Thames Valley Police website showing that it can happen to the very best of us....
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A 32-year-old experienced motorcycle instructor was filtering to the offside of rush hour traffic in Milton Keynes, when a vehicle ahead in the queue moved out slightly so the driver could see ahead. This caused the rider to swerve to the offside and collide with an oncoming car.
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Lane filtering
Motorcyclists will often filter between lines of traffic held in queues. Motorways and dual carriageways are the most common, although in any heavy traffic you are likely to see motorcycles passing between the lanes. Most are responsible and keep to speeds that are generally safe although there are riders that travel too fast for the conditions.
If you are considering a lane change, for whatever reason, make certain that you do not turn into the lane too quickly. Keep the view to the rear available in the door mirror and search for the motorcycle that may be filtering between the lines of traffic. Turn too quickly and without looking behind and you may not see the motorcyclist until he or she has hit you. Always use your indicators.
To save anyone the time and trouble of copying and pasting the entire thread from one forum to the other, by all means take a look at the thread here.....
http://www.traffic-answers.com/forum/in ... pic=4215.0
Of course all opinions (even Nigel's) are welcome, but with all dues respect, I've done the being interrogated by Police officers now - most answers you will want are in the thread somewhere!