Kimosabe wrote:...take one hand off the wheel while operating a control, which is necessary from the 10-2 PP position
StressedDave wrote:Graham Wright wrote:What is the alternative? Hand crossing, equally frowned upon, was very jerky. PP impossibly more so.
Letting go of the wheel and letting the self-aligning torque set the steering to the recovery angle is ridiculously effective and removes any human error in setting the angle and any human input making the steering jerky.
TR4ffic wrote:Nice post, Astraist... although I'm tempted to describe it a full-on an article . Thanks. You'd be hard pushed to find anything in there to disagree with.Kimosabe wrote:...take one hand off the wheel while operating a control, which is necessary from the 10-2 PP position
I don't want to turn this thread into another 20 page monster, but why to you believe P-P has to be done from
10-2 and not 9-3 (3:15)? ...or have I misunderstood that.
Graham Wright wrote:StressedDave wrote:Graham Wright wrote:What is the alternative? Hand crossing, equally frowned upon, was very jerky. PP impossibly more so.
Letting go of the wheel and letting the self-aligning torque set the steering to the recovery angle is ridiculously effective and removes any human error in setting the angle and any human input making the steering jerky.
Are you suggesting that the wheels will align to the direction of the skid? I hadn't considered that and it was not suggested on the course. I can't remember what the instructor did.
Graham Wright wrote:StressedDave wrote:Graham Wright wrote:What is the alternative? Hand crossing, equally frowned upon, was very jerky. PP impossibly more so.
Letting go of the wheel and letting the self-aligning torque set the steering to the recovery angle is ridiculously effective and removes any human error in setting the angle and any human input making the steering jerky.
Are you suggesting that the wheels will align to the direction of the skid? I hadn't considered that and it was not suggested on the course. I can't remember what the instructor did.
Graham Wright wrote:First off, my observer, an IAM Master, took the route and rapidly discovered that PP steering was not going to work. He extended his angles successfully but very uncomfortably.
Graham Wright wrote:On my turn, I used heel of the hand (once the skid had been induced) and it was very effective. However, that is heavily frowned upon. Needing to apply a large rotation very quickly it was very effective.
Graham Wright wrote:What is the alternative? Hand crossing, equally frowned upon, was very jerky. PP impossibly more so.
Kimosabe wrote:At the 3:15 position, I can reach the horn buttons of both my cars without taking a hand off the wheel or moving anything but a part of my hand from that position. At night, that's equally true because I need fast access to raise and dip my beams and it's easier to do from 3:15. The only other alternative is to take one hand off the wheel while operating a control, which is necessary from the 10-2 PP position. So this means that in order to continue to steer safely and effectively while operating the controls, that I would need to change hand positions such that they mirror eachother from 10-2 to 3:15 but as some people consider the latter to be out of the question, I wonder how they manage this?
Horse wrote:I *think* that we were told that once the car gets past sideways (ie 90 degrees) then tread hard on both brake and clutch pedals and (possibly) let go of the wheel.
Horse wrote:
I *think* that we were told that once the car gets past sideways (ie 90 degrees) then tread hard on both brake and clutch pedals and (possibly) let go of the wheel.
WhoseGeneration wrote:Horse wrote:
I *think* that we were told that once the car gets past sideways (ie 90 degrees) then tread hard on both brake and clutch pedals and (possibly) let go of the wheel.
I "think", vaguely remembering some past reading, that was old school racing driver approach, to attempt to induce a spin, hoping to stay on the black stuff.
Astraist wrote:This method is used in NASCAR racing where skids like these are unrecoverable and the driving position hinders quick steering. Letting the wheel sort itself out is something I was advised against, unless the skid is very dramatic. Even than you usually need to accelerate the wheel's rotation with your hand or retardate it with it.
zadocbrown wrote:
Yes - the idea being to lock all wheels so that you go in a straight line and come to rest still on the tarmac (albeit facing in a random direction) rather than risking grip returning at the wrong angle and firing you off into something solid.
It's most suited to cars with no abs/esp, though I guess it will work even with those aids to an extent.
WhoseGeneration wrote:zadocbrown wrote:
Yes - the idea being to lock all wheels so that you go in a straight line and come to rest still on the tarmac (albeit facing in a random direction) rather than risking grip returning at the wrong angle and firing you off into something solid.
It's most suited to cars with no abs/esp, though I guess it will work even with those aids to an extent.
I'm not sure circuit techniques are appropriate for public roads, AD surely means not having to ever use such, although last resort might be all there is.
Esp?, how on earth can anyone explore its capability on public roads, just hope that if one gets it a bit wrong it will help and one will not confuse it with one's inputs, unless one has read the owners' manual. How many do that?
Of course, if you are one who wants to, you could use esp to help you to make maximum progress, that being the unintended consequence of legislation aimed at the "average" driver.
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