What is advanced driving like around the world?

[PeteG]

If they showed those videos on TV here, they'd be effective. But we couldn't possibly risk upsetting someone, could we? I think anyone who has lost someone through a drink-driver, or non-seatbelt wearer, would rather have the videos out there showing what can (and too frequently does) happen...
Ms Godiva's reaction shows exactly what can be acheived - obviously we don't want people getting hysterical when they get bnehind the wheel, but if it makes just one person think to put on their seatbelt, or stops person from havinbg a few cans before driving, it's worth it, ian't it?. I happened to see a lot of that type of video in a presentation by our local fire brigade at a RoSPA night - very effective.

[SammyTheSnake]

Ms Godiva's reaction shows exactly what can be acheived.

Not wanting to re-enforce stereotypes, but it's a fact that the typical female is more empathetic than the typical male. I suspect most of these adverts would have their largest effect on other than those who constitute the biggest risk. The "for my girlfriend" type approach would seem to be more aimed at the high-risk category of "young, male, inexperienced" than the ones that show little kiddies being the victims. I remember that when I was 17 I wasn't at all keen on kids, it's something that's only grown on me since then (and now I'm really looking forward to being a Dad some day) but I suspect the majority of the effect that advert had on me when I watched it the other day would've been lost on me when I was at what statistics have shown to be the prime age for fatal RTAs.

Cheers & God bless
Sam "SammyTheSnake" Penny

[Jungles]

While there is no accepted framework of advanced driving in Australia, there is increasing trend, backed by road-safety research and the prior work of some influential driver trainers (Hill and Fickling being most prominent), for advanced driver training to involve the development of correct driving Attitude, followed by skill-based Action training. It is swiftly gaining acceptance in motoring organisations such as various Royal Automobile clubs, insurance companies, and some car manufacturers and governments.

Attitude deals with psychological aspects of driving, such as how we perceive our own driving, self-criticism and improvement, and how we perceive driving behaviours of other motorists. This is the most critical part of training to be safe.

Action is the more broad step, encompassing Preparation, Anticipation, and the recursively named Action. Preparation about preparing the vehicle and the driver. Anticipation is about observing for hazards and spatial awareness of what is happening around the driver. Action is what to do with the information gained by the driver, and how to deal with emergency situations such as skids and imminent collisions.

Unfortunately, a lot of advanced drivers in my country still stick to the old "skid pan" mentality. So trainers who use the Attitude and Action approach are rare, although slowly increasing in number. Companies like Motorvate (previously Drive Skill International),DECA, and AAMI are notable for their efforts in pushing first-attitude-then-skill philosophy. Other respected names like Murcotts and Safe Drive use a more blended approach.

However, the pinnacle of advanced driving skill is accepted to be at the level where a driver can not only prevent collisions, but also avoid them when imminent; so there is no lack of emphasis on emergency control training. It's just that these days, there is more emphasis being placed on attitudinal conditioning so that the increase in skill is not negated by unsafe attitude, and defensive strategies to ensure emergencies are prevented as much as possible.

[manilva15b]

The road safety statistics quoted are out of date.

Spain, having introduced points-based lecences on July 1st has experienced a 20% drop in road fatalities. The AVERAGE level has dropped to the European meadian level. Having said that, your chances of DYING in a road accident in Spain are still TWO-AND-A-HALF times geater than the UK.

To get back to the original thread - no there are NO advanced driving organisations here in Spain. The most advanced would probably be the RACC (Spain's AA) which offers general driving advice but nothing like the level available in the UK.

What this coiuntry dearly needs is a Spanaird who has done IAM or similar to spread the word (foreigners are ignored).

[Nigel]

snd one over so we can teach him !

[Li]

We don't have anything like advanced driving here in China. We are even not taught how to REV match when downshifting any more because we are told that is what a synchronization gear is for. The Chinese driving online forums that I have participated focus more on fuel economy skill, parking skill, etc. We indeed also discuss about driving skills. But it is more like a personal experience. Each particular driving skill under discussion is not examined on the basis of a commonly recognised standard because we do not have it. And many drives here are not aware of the benefits that advanced driving could bring. So it is very rare to see a sound and fully analysis on a driving skill, like on this forum or other UK. I personally learned a lot through such advanced driving forums.

Sorry for getting this old thread out again.

[hardboiled]

No apologies needed - it's interesting to hear what else is available around the world.

[Horse]

Reading Is advanced driving the same around the world?

I have... absolutley no idea. They probably do bit I would like to think that we Brit's have a degree of finesse, skill and attitude at a higher level than the others.

Hey, James, did you forget the ' ' there?

I used to be involved with the Motorcycle Safety Foundation, a US organisation which provides motorcycle rider training, all 'range' (car park etc) but no on-road.

I understand that the MSF was founded by people who had Canadian 'Roadcraft'-based training experienced - but I can't verify that.

However, the MSF's training was heavily influenced by the aptly-named 'Hurt' report in to motorcycle crashes, looking in to rider failings.

It's worth noting that the MSF were using 'Observe Predict Act' in the late 1980s - sound familiar? I asked a UK police instructor who was involved with the mid-90s R/c rewrite whether they examined other countries training methods, but apparently not, instead coming up with the cirrent R/c equivalent.

The MSF use the term 'advanced' differently to us, as in 'advanced machine control skills', after the four 'basic' core skills of starting, stopping, shifting, and steering. 'Steering' isn't even in UK motorcycle Roadcraft.

IIRC, MSF courses have been adopted by other countries around the World.

Also in the US, some groups have looked to vary or expand their training courses and content away from the MSF.

For example:
http://teamoregon.orst.edu/TO_Web/ridertraining.html
Who, IIRC, were looking at training the local police in road-riding skills!

This Co.:
http://www.ambulancedriving.com/
Has Alex Jerrim involved.
http://www.driverimprovementconsultancy.com/dic.html
He obtained funding for a Churchill Scholarship, and travelled around the World looking at rider training, including gaining a Class One at Maidstone with Kent Police.

In Holland the KNMV (Royal Dutch M/c Club) have some innovative training methods - but I'm not aware of anything on-line in English to tell you about it!

[WS]

In Poland most advanced driving training is focused on limit handling/skidpan training, etc. Such courses/schools are usually led by former rally or race drivers. Defensive driving or advanced driving in the form it is known in the UK practically does not exist.

Recently, UK's DIA started operating in Poland. They've published a book by Paul Ripley (who I believe is well known in Britain isn't he?) and now organise advanced driving courses which are in principle based on Roadcraft (I believe).

But when you drive in Poland, beware - according to my estimates not more than 1% of drivers drive at least reasonably well. On average, roads here tend to be dangerous and many drivers do things you wouldn't believe...

EDIT: one interesting difference is that all Polish advanced driving schools (to my knowledge, and except for the Polish DIA) teach rotational steering, while push-pull is believed to be incorrect (it's sometimes called 'milking the cow' ). Personally, I think rotational/fixed-input is just as good as any other technique, if used correctly.

[JamesE]

I spent 3 months working for the AA in france this year.

Rightly or wrongly, I was aware that fixed speed cameras posed no risk to me with English numberplates.

Therefore I applied advanced principles to my drive at all times, but was happy to drive at a speed based entirely on the conditions, which(may) have resulted in my exceeding the speed limit at times.

[ROG]

In Poland most advanced driving training is focused on limit handling/skidpan training, etc. Such courses/schools are usually led by former rally or race drivers. Defensive driving or advanced driving in the form it is known in the UK practically does not exist.

Recently, UK's DIA started operating in Poland. They've published a book by Paul Ripley (who I believe is well known in Britain isn't he?) and now organise advanced driving courses which are in principle based on Roadcraft (I believe).

But when you drive in Poland, beware - according to my estimates not more than 1% of drivers drive at least reasonably well. On average, roads here tend to be dangerous and many drivers do things you wouldn't believe...

It does seem that Poland is focussing on the physical control of the vehicle rather than the thinking aspect of driving - see the book 'Mind Driving' by Stephen Haley for reference to this.

[WS]

It does seem that Poland is focussing on the physical control of the vehicle rather than the thinking aspect of driving - see the book 'Mind Driving' by Stephen Haley for reference to this.

Yes, I think this is a right diagnosis.

[waremark]

Paul Ripley's book is good. He had a good reputation as a trainer, and he used to write a weekly driving column in the Telegraph, but I believe he has moved away from the UK.