How many blue light users can you name?

[AnalogueAndy]

Only an emergency vehicle as defined by Reg 3 RVLR 1989 can.

Fire Brigade
Ambulance
Police

SOCA

A vehicle owned by a body formed primarily for the purposes of fire salvage and used for those or similar purposes.

A vehicle owned by the Forestry Commission or by a local authority and used from time to time for the purposes of fighting fires.

A vehicle owned or operated by the Secretary of State for Defence and used-
(i) for the purposes of the disposal of bombs or explosives,
(ii) for the purpose of any activity-
(a) which prevents or decreases the exposure of persons to radiation arising from a radiation accident or radiation emergency, or
(b) in connection with any event which could lead to a radiation accident or radiation emergency;
(iii) by the Royal Air Force Mountain Rescue Service for the purposes of rescue operations or any other emergencies.

A vehicle primarily used for the purposes of the Blood Transfusion Service provided under the National Health Service Act 1977 or under the National Health Service (Scotland) Act 1978.

A vehicle used by Her Majesty's Coastguard or Coastguard Auxiliary Service for the purposes of giving aid to persons in danger or vessels in distress on or near the coast.

A vehicle owned by the British Coal Corporation and used for the purposes of rescue operations at mines.

A vehicle owned by the Royal National Lifeboat Institution and used for the purposes of launching lifeboats.

A vehicle primarily used for the purposes of conveying any human tissue for transplanting or similar purposes.

A vehicle under the lawful control of the Commissioners for Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs and used from time to time for the investigation of serious crime.

A bit more useful info: Reg 3 RVLR 1989 was amended by The Road Vehicles Lighting (Amendment) Regulations 2005.

At that time two bodies under the control of the Secretary of State for Defence were named (the Naval Emergency Monitoring Organisation and the RAF Armament Support Unit) as permitted to use blue lights to prevent or respond to incidents involving nuclear weapons. Due to internal MOD reorganisation, these bodies are now both defunct and therefore the lighting regulations were amended to "ensure that blue lights continue to be permitted on vehicles that are used to prevent or respond to emergencies that involve radioactive material".

Also, during the consultation, the Mountain Rescue Council (MRC) requested to be explicitly added to the list of Emergency vehicles. They advised that although they and Cave Rescue teams have used blue flashing lights and sirens for many years under the belief that their vehicles fall under the definition of a "vehicle used for fire brigade, ambulance and police purposes", some police forces interpret the regulations differently. The MRC asked for a separate entry for their vehicles as Emergency vehicles in the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations.

The Law wasn't changed however because giving MRC vehicles a specific mention in the RVLR might actually have had the effect of eliminating the ability of these vehicles to be exempt from other aspects of road traffic law (RTA predominantly) - speed limits and ability to treat red traffic lights as Give Way signs, are restricted to vehicles used for "Fire Brigade, Police and Ambulance purposes" by the pertinent Acts or Regulations. The presence of an explicit statement in RVLR that MRC is a particular category of Emergency vehicle for the purposes of entitlement to blue lights, might be construed to mean that they are NOT in the category "Fire Brigade, Police or Ambulance purposes". Therefore, if read across to other laws this would imply that they are not entitled to the other privileges which are extended to Emergency vehicles.

[gordonb]

Only an emergency vehicle as defined by Reg 3 RVLR 1989 can.

Fire Brigade
Ambulance
Police

SOCA

A vehicle owned by a body formed primarily for the purposes of fire salvage and used for those or similar purposes.

A vehicle owned by the Forestry Commission or by a local authority and used from time to time for the purposes of fighting fires.

A vehicle owned or operated by the Secretary of State for Defence and used-
(i) for the purposes of the disposal of bombs or explosives,
(ii) for the purpose of any activity-
(a) which prevents or decreases the exposure of persons to radiation arising from a radiation accident or radiation emergency, or
(b) in connection with any event which could lead to a radiation accident or radiation emergency;
(iii) by the Royal Air Force Mountain Rescue Service for the purposes of rescue operations or any other emergencies.

A vehicle primarily used for the purposes of the Blood Transfusion Service provided under the National Health Service Act 1977 or under the National Health Service (Scotland) Act 1978.

A vehicle used by Her Majesty's Coastguard or Coastguard Auxiliary Service for the purposes of giving aid to persons in danger or vessels in distress on or near the coast.

A vehicle owned by the British Coal Corporation and used for the purposes of rescue operations at mines.

A vehicle owned by the Royal National Lifeboat Institution and used for the purposes of launching lifeboats.

A vehicle primarily used for the purposes of conveying any human tissue for transplanting or similar purposes.

A vehicle under the lawful control of the Commissioners for Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs and used from time to time for the investigation of serious crime.

A bit more useful info: Reg 3 RVLR 1989 was amended by The Road Vehicles Lighting (Amendment) Regulations 2005.

At that time two bodies under the control of the Secretary of State for Defence were named (the Naval Emergency Monitoring Organisation and the RAF Armament Support Unit) as permitted to use blue lights to prevent or respond to incidents involving nuclear weapons. Due to internal MOD reorganisation, these bodies are now both defunct and therefore the lighting regulations were amended to "ensure that blue lights continue to be permitted on vehicles that are used to prevent or respond to emergencies that involve radioactive material".

Also, during the consultation, the Mountain Rescue Council (MRC) requested to be explicitly added to the list of Emergency vehicles. They advised that although they and Cave Rescue teams have used blue flashing lights and sirens for many years under the belief that their vehicles fall under the definition of a "vehicle used for fire brigade, ambulance and police purposes", some police forces interpret the regulations differently. The MRC asked for a separate entry for their vehicles as Emergency vehicles in the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations.

The Law wasn't changed however because giving MRC vehicles a specific mention in the RVLR might actually have had the effect of eliminating the ability of these vehicles to be exempt from other aspects of road traffic law (RTA predominantly) - speed limits and ability to treat red traffic lights as Give Way signs, are restricted to vehicles used for "Fire Brigade, Police and Ambulance purposes" by the pertinent Acts or Regulations. The presence of an explicit statement in RVLR that MRC is a particular category of Emergency vehicle for the purposes of entitlement to blue lights, might be construed to mean that they are NOT in the category "Fire Brigade, Police or Ambulance purposes". Therefore, if read across to other laws this would imply that they are not entitled to the other privileges which are extended to Emergency vehicles.

This is my understing of it also Andy, from the Mountain Rescue point of view anyway.

It becomes more difficult once the Road Safety Act 2006 is fully implimented, as with regards to speed exemptions there is a requirement to have completed "approved training by an approved centre" Certainly in Scotland there is no driver training, let alone defined standards. Individual teams may have there own policies, and may have some input from there local Police force.

Does anyone no what the official situation is with the Road Safety Act 2006 in terms of the speed exemptions and the need for approved training. I understand that some parts of the Act, including this bit, are not fully implimented...?

As you may have gathered I'm involved with Mountain Rescue and as the law stands there is no requirement for our drivers to complete any form of training to use Blues and Two's! Which is worrying....

I'm trying to get recognition for the need to provide some basic advanced driving for our drivers, with a view to getting input form our local police force. But nationally there is no standars or policy (Not sure about Engalnd and Wales).

Gordon

[MGF]

I thought the need for training already applies to speed exemption but not blue lights.....

[vonhosen]

I thought the need for training already applies to speed exemption but not blue lights.....

Not yet.

But I think it's going to be rather more formal than some of the previous posters hope.

[AnalogueAndy]

I thought the need for training already applies to speed exemption but not blue lights.....

Not yet.

But I think it's going to be rather more formal than some of the previous posters hope.

Any you able to give any more info vonhosen?

Copy of the Act here:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2006/uk ... #pb6-l1g19

So I guess the Act has been enacted but the associated 'Regulations' haven't?

[vonhosen]

I thought the need for training already applies to speed exemption but not blue lights.....

Not yet.

But I think it's going to be rather more formal than some of the previous posters hope.

Any you able to give any more info vonhosen?

Copy of the Act here:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2006/uk ... #pb6-l1g19

So I guess the Act has been enacted but the associated 'Regulations' haven't?

Parts of the Road Safety Act have come into force but not the section regarding compulsory training for speed exemptions.

I can't see training being available on the cheap, I think you can expect to have to complete a course similar to a Police response course & that is going to be very costly & time consuming. I can see it being a right headache for voluntary & charity groups.
Also I can see this having to be databased centrally (DVLA anyone ?) rather than just local records kept.

These are just my personal thoughts.

[gordonb]

I thought the need for training already applies to speed exemption but not blue lights.....

Not yet.

But I think it's going to be rather more formal than some of the previous posters hope.

It can only be a good thing.

It might be a real pain for the organisations who do not have any training in place at all at the moment. But the need to come into line.

[vonhosen]

I thought the need for training already applies to speed exemption but not blue lights.....

Not yet.

But I think it's going to be rather more formal than some of the previous posters hope.

It can only be a good thing.

It might be a real pain for the organisations who do not have any training in place at all at the moment. But the need to come into line.

Where is the money going to come from though for voluntary & charitable organisations (St Johns for instance) to complete courses that are likely to cost several thousand pounds for each driver, with no guarantee of a pass ?

[gordonb]

I thought the need for training already applies to speed exemption but not blue lights.....

Not yet.

But I think it's going to be rather more formal than some of the previous posters hope.

It can only be a good thing.

It might be a real pain for the organisations who do not have any training in place at all at the moment. But the need to come into line.

Where is the money going to come from though for voluntary & charitable organisations (St Johns for instance) to complete courses that are likely to cost several thousand pounds for each driver, with no guarantee of a pass ?

Totally agree Von, as a Charitable Organistion our running cost are already around the £25- 30K per annum.

Also any idea how organistions outside the Professional emergency services would access this training?

Gordon

[vonhosen]

I thought the need for training already applies to speed exemption but not blue lights.....

Not yet.

But I think it's going to be rather more formal than some of the previous posters hope.

It can only be a good thing.

It might be a real pain for the organisations who do not have any training in place at all at the moment. But the need to come into line.

Where is the money going to come from though for voluntary & charitable organisations (St Johns for instance) to complete courses that are likely to cost several thousand pounds for each driver, with no guarantee of a pass ?

Totally agree Von, as a Charitable Organistion our running cost are already around the £25- 30K per annum.

Also any idea how organistions outside the Professional emergency services would access this training?

Gordon

The speed exemption is only currently for Police, Fire, Ambulance & SOCA purposes. The legislation leaves it open to add others where it is deemed necessary. The only way I can see it happening is the eligible organisations will have to bid & pay for courses from established approved training centres.

[Standard Dave]

It is my understanding that some organisations and possibly private providers will be able to with suitably qualified staff be allowed to operate approved training centres, this will of course operate in the same way as the access to police advanced driving courses for the other emergency services and the military in that you pay and get to play.

[AnalogueAndy]

It is my understanding that some organisations and possibly private providers will be able to with suitably qualified staff be allowed to operate approved training centres, this will of course operate in the same way as the access to police advanced driving courses for the other emergency services and the military in that you pay and get to play.

Like lots of this Governments Legislation, I agree with the general thrust of the idea but I'm afraid it's not been properly thought out and in practice will turn into a fiasco...

Aside from the cost of it all it will be interesting to see what happens.