Designing Routes on Sat Navs - why so painful (and expensive

[waremark]

Our experience of both Garmin and TomTom is that Garmin is better for following predefined routes and TomTom is better for giving timely instructions in built-up areas.

Haven't compared the two, but the Garmin seems pretty good on the way directions are given and the timing of them. There's also the 'countdown' in the bottom right of the screen which gives distance to junctions.

FWIW when I changed from the Garmin 660 to the TT 920 I found as Gareth says that the TT makes a better job of keeping up with exactly where I am - there is nothing wrong with the Garmin display, but it was slightly slower to update which could be confusing eg at a junction with multiple exits.

Gareth, what aspect makes you say that Garmin is better for following predefined routes?

Personally, I love to have the latest toy, so I am hoping that Santa will bring me a TomTom 940 - my son has pre-ordered one which is supposed to arrive tomorrow, I look forward to seeing whether it is a worthwhile step forward.

[waremark]

I will have a play in Halfords and make sure ...

An alternative approach is to meet up with a 760 owner (Hanna, others I am sure you know) on a drive day for ADUK or some other driving club. It is much easier to see how to get the best out of a unit if it is demonstrated by someone who knows it well (meaning no disrespect to Halfords staff).

[Daaave]

I've got a TomTom GO unit and I personally use Google maps to plan an itinerary.

1. Go to http://maps.google.co.uk/
2. Scroll to start position
3. Mouse on start point, right click > 'Directions from here'
4. Mouse on next way-point, right click > 'Directions to here'
5. Mouse on next way-point, right click > 'Add a destination'
6. Repeat point 5 as many times as you like, noting that if you want a very specific route that you can see is not the fastest or the shortest distance - add plenty of intermediate way-points to stop the TomTom from re-routing you back to a motorway or whatever.
7. Not entirely sure why this is, but if you have any way-points that you added to the route by typing them into the search/destination box, rather than right clicked and added, then you will have to manually click-hold on that way-point and move it a fraction. You'll get an error later if you don't do this.
8. Click on the 'Link' icon on the top right of the Google map.
9. Copy the long link in the box that appears.
10. Go to http://www.houghi.org/tomtom/ and paste the link into the box and click on 'Make ITN'.
11. Save the .itn file to the TomTom via the USB cable.
12. Depending on the TomTom, you may have to load the itinerary and then change the way-points to actually be way-points as the TomTom thinks they are all individual destinations. This isn't a big deal, but the calculated route timing and distance will only show you the numbers to the next destination. You can change this in the.itn file before you copy it to the TomTom, but I'll not confuse things with extra complication.

Sounds like a lot, but it really easy. I've also got used to doing the same sort of thing using the 'make itinerary' option on the TomTom. But it's a pain if you have loads of way-points.

[Gareth]

In TT software you can make a via point either a waypoint, in which case it will continue to the next waypoint once you have been somewhere nearby, or a destination in which case you have to manually tell it to move on . Sometimes the fact that the sat-nav does not need to go exactly to a waypoint can be a nuisance, for example if you are trying to travel a country road which runs parallel to a major road. How does Garmin deal with this?

That seems like a better handling than Garmin, in which it tries to make you pass through all the points along the route, but on the other hand if you show determination in ignoring a specific point, it will eventually give up trying to make you 'collect it'.

I've not had problems locating a viapoint on a country road running parallel to a main road, even when entering the route on the unit. With a Garmin sat-nav the problem of a missed viapoint is more likely to arise as a result of not precisely following the directions, and so going off the pre-planned route.

what aspect makes you say that Garmin is better for following predefined routes?

Entirely based on Hanna's experiences of not being able to follow the route directions She reports that TomTom gets its knickers in a twist when you take the wrong turning, or neglect to take the correct turning, whereas Garmin handles this with more aplomb, (or something). The issue discussed above notwithstanding.

[waremark]

I've got a TomTom GO unit and I personally use Google maps to plan an itinerary.

10. Go to http://www.houghi.org/tomtom/ and paste the link into the box and click on 'Make ITN'.

If I am wrong I shall be delighted to be corrected, but...

Sadly this utility which used to work has recently stopped working. I believe this is because Google Maps has changed the format of the 'Links' text.

[Gareth]

I suspect that Daaave's instructions may still work as what he describes is a multi-segmented route, as opposed to a single route with multiple viapoints.

The couple of programs I know about that use the Google Maps API to create routes actually create a multi-segmented route, and those still work OK.

For clarification, a multi-segmented route is one in which a sequence of additional destinations are entered in the correct order. In some ways the alternative method of specifying the start and final destination, and then dragging the route to where you want it to go, is easier but unfortunately it now of less utility.

[SammyTheSnake]

7. Not entirely sure why this is, but if you have any way-points that you added to the route by typing them into the search/destination box, rather than right clicked and added, then you will have to manually click-hold on that way-point and move it a fraction. You'll get an error later if you don't do this.

Educated guess only, but I suspect it's that if you specify a waypoint by name, then the *name* gets saved in the URL and TomTom doesn't necessarily use the same names etc, and the utility probably doesn't know how to translate to coordinates.

If you click / drag then google maps thinks of the waypoint in terms of coordinates (lats and longs etc. I think)

Also:

if it is demonstrated by someone who knows it well (meaning no disrespect to Halfords staff).

Why not? In my experience, the monkeys they employ at halfords have difficulty operating the flip chart on the shelf to tell you what windscreen wiper set you need for a mk3 golf, let alone knowing about a specific technically complex product...


Cheers & God bless
Sam "SammyTheSnake" Penny

[waremark]

I suspect that Daaave's instructions may still work as what he describes is a multi-segmented route, as opposed to a single route with multiple viapoints.

Still does not seem to work for me. Even using the click/add destination approach, Google Maps still puts road names in the link. If someone checks and finds it does still work then I must be doing something wrong and I will try again - although as Gareth says the purpose of the exercise will have been somewhat defeated.

I wonder why Google/Tomtom don't agree a specific transfer procedure - I think it is surprising for Google to set up a transfer to BMW idrive, but not to TT.

[jont]

I suspect that Daaave's instructions may still work as what he describes is a multi-segmented route, as opposed to a single route with multiple viapoints.

Still does not seem to work for me. Even using the click/add destination approach, Google Maps still puts road names in the link. If someone checks and finds it does still work then I must be doing something wrong and I will try again - although as Gareth says the purpose of the exercise will have been somewhat defeated.

I've noticed the same problem in the last few weeks I've tried a few links to get google maps URLs into TT files and failed on all of them. However it's not that much harder to define the route in the same way using the TT itself, although google maps is handy to get a view of possible routes.

[Daaave]

I suspect that Daaave's instructions may still work as what he describes is a multi-segmented route, as opposed to a single route with multiple viapoints.

Still does not seem to work for me. Even using the click/add destination approach, Google Maps still puts road names in the link. If someone checks and finds it does still work then I must be doing something wrong and I will try again - although as Gareth says the purpose of the exercise will have been somewhat defeated.

I've noticed the same problem in the last few weeks I've tried a few links to get google maps URLs into TT files and failed on all of them. However it's not that much harder to define the route in the same way using the TT itself, although google maps is handy to get a view of possible routes.

Hrm, I haven't used it in a while and you seem to be correct... I can't get it to work now either.

I'm sure it won't take long before the geeks create a new method and update their websites!

[Gareth]

I'm sure it won't take long before the geeks create a new method and update their websites!

As it's been like this for a while - since sometime in the Summer when Google changed something about the way the handled mapping data - I doubt there will be an easy way to work around this. The last time I tried using TYRE or ITN Converter - both MS-Windows applications - they both worked.

I understand that Google changed the way they provided links to routes created on Google Maps because the terms of their access to the mapping data precluded them from providing accurate geographic locations, so what these on-line conversion programs were using was seen as a bug and fixed.

[Custom24]

I've now had my Garmin 710T for a few days and I'm looking forward to trying out some routes on it this weekend, which I've transferred manually from Google maps.

Interestingly, I think I essentially got European routes for free (although no map source). When I bought it, it had UK & Ireland 2008 pre-installed. I then registered it on the Garmin website and it told me to download a software update, and also asked would I like to update to the 2009 maps for free.

Of course the answer was yes and 2.6 GB of downloads and some patience later, I now have these maps. However, when I installed them, it gave me a choice of several Euorpean regions to install. I think Garmin mentioned this when I talked to them, although I've not actually tried to install any of the other regions yet.

The device itself is good so far, but has mysteriously shut down once or twice in the middle of designing a route.

[Custom24]

I've been out with my new toy at the weekend, and it is pretty good. In terms of the route planning, it is not bad. I designed a couple of routes on Google maps and entered them manually on the 710.

There are several ways of entering the waypoints on the unit. I've found it is more convenient to place waypoints on some specific piece of road, rather than just naming a village or town, since the latter can route you through a street you didn't want to travel if you are not careful.

The unit allows you to do this (one of the possible ways to enter the waypoint is via the map, and you can just select any piece of road). However, one minor annoyance is that each time you choose to enter a waypoint via the map, the map starts off again from your current physical location (or at least the last one known), rather than from the previous waypoint you entered. This is especially annoying if you are designing a route which is far away from where you are "now", as you have to keep zooming out, panning around, zooming in, etc, every time.

Apart from that, I had some nice drives on roads I've never been on before