Daughters Accident

[fungus]

My daughter was involved in an accident on Tuesday evening at about 10.10pm. She has been accused of going through red traffic lights. She was hit on the N/S rear just behind the passenger door (Mini Cooper S) And spun 180 degrees, ending up on the pavement outside a Pub.

She was very shocked at the time of the accident and her recollection of events is a bit sketchy. The other driver is adamant that she went through on red, and has witnesses to say so. My daughter did not speak to any of the witnesses, and they did not hang around for long. The other driver did not want the Police involved, as he said he did not want her to get into trouble. He then said, "I would move your car otherwise the police will be interested if they pass by and find it in that position, or words to that effect. She said that he was calm and quite nice to her. But his manner changed when my wife and I arrived. They had exchanged names and addresses but not insurance companies. Whilst I looked at the damage to both vehicles, my wife asked for some details. He was relucant to give her any names of witnesses, indeed he did not have addresses, only names and mobile phone numbers. Whilst she was recording these on her phone he became impatient and told her to get a move on. He said, "I'm as blind as a bat and I can do it quicker than that", which was not the best thing to say to my wife.

He said his car was not driveable, but the only visible damage was to the front N/S of the bumper, which would obviously haave to be replaced. After about 10 minutes he left, and my wife waited for the recovery truck as our daughters rear N/S wheel had been hit and was slightly out of line. I waited with her for a while, and in that time the owner of the pub came out and spoke to us. He told us that the other driver had come into the bar and asked for paper to record details, and that my daughter had said that she had gone through red lights. To this my daughter said that she had not admitted to anything. The bar owner said that his CCTV might possibly show something but we thought it dubtfull ,as it was pointing at the car park opposite. He said that we were quite welcome to view it if we wished, and if he could be of any help to phone him.

My daughter said that she wanted to report the accident to the Police, so I took her to the local Police Station. It was not neccesary to report the accident as ther were no injuries, but the Police just confimed the other drivers car was legal, and that was that. Yesterday I decided to phone the bar owner and find out more about the angle of the CCTV and if it would be of any help, but as before we decided that it probably wouln't. Whilst I was on the phone the bar owner told me that the other driver had been back to the bar and found another witness, this a full twelve hours after the accident. We are now beginning to think that he is dragging up witnesses from wherever he can. It also seems strange that he knows where one of the witnesses works, Even though he is not local. He lives in Margate.

The insurance company think that it will be a 50/50 as she is not admitting liability, but it is early days yet.

I have copied the junction off Google Earth. My daughter was travelling from right to left. The other driver was presumably travelling S-N, or S-E. The pub is the building in the bottom left hand corner.

[img]http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq144/fungus51/PennHill.jpg[/img]

Nigel ADI
IAM trainee observer

[fungus]

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Nigel ADI
IAM trainee observer

[Sru_1980]

Sorry to hear of your daughter's accident, glad she's ok. It sounds to me like the guy involved is a bit dodgy - can't put my finger on why, but just his general manner, especially as he was trying to dredge up witnesses. Just seems a bit odd, somehow!

Hope it all gets sorted, anyway.

[michael769]

I'd suggest getting some photographs of the damage to her vehicle, also photographs of the junction and any debris (if it is still there). It's surprising how often "witness" statements do not come even remotely close to being consistent with photographs taken on site.

In the aftermath of a collision I'd always suggest getting the police involved, if only to get a reliable and independent record of the immediate aftermath of a collision. This is especially important if the other part starts kicking off about blame, or "witnesses".

Of course if you know you were to blame, and had just done something badly wrong, it might not be in your interests to have the police involved..... (not that I am suggesting that is the case with this one).

[Porker]

Given that your daughter is stating that she didn't proceed against a red light, is it reasonable to suppose that the other driver did? This might be his motivation for attempting to build up a body of evidence against her via these "witnesses".

The advice to get as many photos as possible is good. Do you have any of the other vehicle?

Have you checked the other vehicle against the tax and insurance databases? This might throw up some reason as to why he doesn't want the police involved. (That said, what did they mean when they said it was legal? Do they mean it had tax and insurance or does it just come up as being registered?). Even if the car is insured, it might not be so for the driver actually involved.

I would also write down everything you and your daughter can recall about the crash as soon as possible, including descriptions of the driver and passengers, if any.

regards
P.

[zadocbrown]

"I'm as blind as a bat and I can do it quicker than that",

That's an interesting comment, given that it seems at least one driver went through on red. Perhaps you should ask him to prove his vision is up to scratch?

[fungus]

micheal 769 wrote,

I'd suggest getting some photographs of the damage to her vehicle, also photographs of the junction and any debris (if it is still there). It's surprising how often "witness" statements do not come even remotely close to being consistent with photographs taken on site.

In the aftermath of a collision I'd always suggest getting the police involved, if only to get a reliable and independent record of the immediate aftermath of a collision. This is especially important if the other part starts kicking off about blame, or "witnesses".

We have taken photographs of the damage to her vehicle, but unfortunately not of the other vehicle.
The police were not involved at the scene of the accident, but we reported it to the police about two hours after.
My wife and I arrived at the scene about 25 minutes after the accident occurred. By this time both vehicles had been moved. We retrieved a piece of the other vehicles front bumper which was laying on the pavement in the area where our daughters car came to rest.

Porker wrote,

Have you checked the other vehicle against the tax and insurance databases? This might throw up some reason as to why he doesn't want the police involved. (That said, what did they mean when they said it was legal? Do they mean it had tax and insurance or does it just come up as being registered?). Even if the car is insured, it might not be so for the driver actually involved.

The police checked that the other vehicle had road tax and was insured. Their check showed the vehicle as being taxed and insured.

My wife and daughter went back to scene of the accident yesterday, and checked the visibility of the junction from the road to the south where the other vehicle came from. They had parked about 60yds from the junction as there are parking restrictions in place up to that point. From their position, which is elevated from the junction, they could see cars approaching from the right, (the direction that our daughter came from). They also noticed that when they were waiting at the lights and they turned green in their favour, that a car was still clearing the junction. I am wondering if the timing of the lights is on the tight side.

Nigel ADI
IAM trainee observer

[ExadiNigel]

For this chap to find witnesses that can state your daughter went through on red they will have to have been driving behind your daughter. This chap cannot say your daughter went through a red light just because his light was green (supposedly).

Definitely all sounds dodgy. Have you or your wife spoken to any of these witnesses?

Nigel

[fungus]

Hi Nigel,

The witness details have been passed to our daughters insurance company, but we have not spoken to them ourselves

Nigel ADI
IAM trainee observer