Newer Vehicles Vision

[fungus]

you can overcome the 'technical advances' in design by being more flexible in your all-round searches - for example, if you lean forward* before entering a roundabout, you can check the area obscured by the A pillar. Similar movement will increase the information in your door mirrors and a motorbike style shoulder check will help you see round the B and C pillars.

Agreed . . . to a point. However hard you crane, it's impossible to see the rear corners (such as they are) without unbelting, opening the door and climbing out

I wonder whether this active - literally - searching is adequately covered by ADIs for when their trainees move on to larger, more substantial, vehicles.

Also it's an issue for our ageing population where mobility - particularly of the neck - is an issue.

I encourage my pupils to look around the pillars, and to keep the head moving.

Another point to take into account is the eyes natural blind spot. This is about 20 degrees to the outside of centre, and will increase the blind spot caused by the pillars.

[devonutopia]

Dad's car isn't the best - brand new Audi TT coupe. Although it has no B pillar as such, the C pillar area is massive on both sides. Although it is always nice to be able to check the blind spot with one continuous (ish) pane of glass going right back to the C pillar. Pic is a bit big?!.... Direct link is http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i87/d ... C00518.jpg

[Renny]

IMHO, you can overcome the 'technical advances' in design by being more flexible in your all-round searches - for example, if you lean forward* before entering a roundabout, you can check the area obscured by the A pillar.

Sorry, but this doesn't work for me. As I lean forward, all the happens is I get more of the obstruction as my head moves closer to the pillar. It also is frustrating with these raked 'screens cause reflections of the dash onto the 'screen.

Mind you a Caterham does have few restrictions on vision (unless you have the hood up), perhaps I should add that to the list of possible replacement cars

[TripleS]

IMHO, you can overcome the 'technical advances' in design by being more flexible in your all-round searches - for example, if you lean forward* before entering a roundabout, you can check the area obscured by the A pillar.

Sorry, but this doesn't work for me. As I lean forward, all the happens is I get more of the obstruction as my head moves closer to the pillar. It also is frustrating with these raked 'screens cause reflections of the dash onto the 'screen.

Mind you a Caterham does have few restrictions on vision (unless you have the hood up), perhaps I should add that to the list of possible replacement cars

Talking of raked windscreens - well I am anyhow - am I alone in thinking the geometry of the A post* on the Peugeot 207CC is a bit ridiculous in that area?

The windscreen is set at a very shallow angle, and with the A post (except it isn't a post, which would normally be vertical - it's more like a curved beam!) also being at a shallow angle and going back quite a long way, you tend to bang your head on it as you get into the car. Bloody stylists!

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[michael769]

The problem of pillars (esp the A pillar) excessively obstructing the driver's view of their surroundings is something that is increasingly on the radar of the folks involved in safer vehicle engineering, and there has been talk that euroNCAP should incorporat some kind of visibility test into the safety ratings system.

IMHO this is probably what is needed to improve things as much of the thickness of pillars is due to manufacturers trying to meet the rollover safety tests. Enhancing the tests with a visibility standard would hopefully compel the engineers and designers to apply their ingenuity to reducing the intrusiveness of the pillars without compromising the vehicles strength.

I think a decent objective test for visibility is, a year or two away, but I'd be surprised if it does not come along in due course.

[Renny]

Good to hear that Michael. Designers need to realise that active safety in being able to see hazards will greatly reduce the need for the passive safety measures to to function.

Yesterday I scored another car off my "possible" list, as the Honda CRZ has awful vision due to sloping A-pillars and the buttressed C-pillars. Visibility other than forwards reminded me of a Daimler Ferret

[waremark]

Talking of raked windscreens - well I am anyhow - am I alone in thinking the geometry of the A post* on the Peugeot 207CC is a bit ridiculous in that area?

The windscreen is set at a very shallow angle, and with the A post (except it isn't a post, which would normally be vertical - it's more like a curved beam!) also being at a shallow angle and going back quite a long way, you tend to bang your head on it as you get into the car. Bloody stylists!

Does Mrs SSS have a 207?

I don't think the 207 A pillar is the fault of the stylists. As with other hard top convertibles (and this applies particularly to 4 seat cars), the 207's A pillar comes a long way back so that the roof area can be quite small; the point being that the roof has to fit into the boot when it is lowered.

Some hard top convertibles use two panel roofs to enable them to use more conventional styling - the Volvo C70 is an example of this.

In spite of the A pillar I think the 207 looks quite good and is a fun car.

[TripleS]

Talking of raked windscreens - well I am anyhow - am I alone in thinking the geometry of the A post* on the Peugeot 207CC is a bit ridiculous in that area?

The windscreen is set at a very shallow angle, and with the A post (except it isn't a post, which would normally be vertical - it's more like a curved beam!) also being at a shallow angle and going back quite a long way, you tend to bang your head on it as you get into the car. Bloody stylists!

Does Mrs SSS have a 207?

I don't think the 207 A pillar is the fault of the stylists. As with other hard top convertibles (and this applies particularly to 4 seat cars), the 207's A pillar comes a long way back so that the roof area can be quite small; the point being that the roof has to fit into the boot when it is lowered.

Some hard top convertibles use two panel roofs to enable them to use more conventional styling - the Volvo C70 is an example of this.

In spite of the A pillar I think the 207 looks quite good and is a fun car.

No, Eileen has a 206 with a fixed tin top.

Anyhow the 207CC may look reasonably OK, amd it might be a fun car, but the head banging potential is still there; even if it is the result of practical constraints on roof panel size, rather than the fault of the stylists.

Obviously it's easier for you young fellas to get in and out of these contraptions unscathed.

Edit: I like your post on PH at 17:43 today. Well said, Mark.

Best wishes all,
Dave - old and awkward.