Duelling lorries

[Angus]

Over the last couple of weeks I've done several hundred miles on various sections of two-lane dual carriageway.

Most of the time, traffic in lane 2 has been moving at 70+, until an HGV pulls out to overtake another, and reduces the speed of the lane to 56, sometimes for 3 or 4 miles.

My question is, is this a traffic offence? and if not should it be? I think both drivers should be booked

[ROG]

Obviously the LGV overtaking is quicker or it would not have caught up with the other so it goes for the overtake.
It is then up to the one being overtaken to ease off a little as per the advice in the HC to allow the other to pass easily.
If it is going uphill then that is not likely to happen until it levels out because of the momentum loss for a heavy truck

What often happens is that the driver being overtaken will not knock off the CC or ease off the pedal believing that the one overtaking it should bear the responsibility

[fungus]

This reminds me of an occasion a few years ago driving west on the A31 through the New Forrest.

The road is a two lane dual carriageway which is up and down hill. A few vehicles ahead were two loaded highway maintenance lorries. Vehicles were overtaking both lorries as they were following very closely. One driver had left a larger gap than the others. Before this driver had chance to overtake, the second lorry pulled out into the gap to overtake the first. This action resulted in a very long queue behind the lorry as it was rush hour and the lorry took almost five miles to complete the overtake.

I don't know the legal position, but IMHO both drivers should be prosecuted for causing obstruction. Both drivers knew that the overtake would take miles due to the fact that both lorries were identical and fully laden.

[daz6215]

It's inconsiderate isn't it?

[IVORTHE DRIVER]

It's inconsiderate isn't it?

Yes maybe..but is it any worse than the drivers who stay in the outside lane just in case they ever catch up with the next vehicle on the inside lane (M8 Glasgow to Edinburgh being only 2 lane is very bad for that)

Incidently most trucks these days unless very heavily laden, lose very little momentum on hills, splitter boxes and turbo's see to that.

Also as a matter of interest, how come all the other cars in the OP were too close together anyway, less than the length of the truck is far to close at that speed, plus if the second truck was obviously catching the first would it not have been considerate for the car driver to let him out anyway, or does inconsideration not apply to car drivers?

Ivor

[Slink_Pink]

It's inconsiderate isn't it?

Yes maybe..but is it any worse than the drivers who stay in the outside lane just in case they ever catch up with the next vehicle on the inside lane (M8 Glasgow to Edinburgh being only 2 lane is very bad for that)

Incidently most trucks these days unless very heavily laden, lose very little momentum on hills, splitter boxes and turbo's see to that.

Also as a matter of interest, how come all the other cars in the OP were too close together anyway, less than the length of the truck is far to close at that speed, plus if the second truck was obviously catching the first would it not have been considerate for the car driver to let him out anyway, or does inconsideration not apply to car drivers?

Ivor

+1, particularly the first point about eternal lane 2 drivers.

[daz6215]

Inconsiderate driving applies to any driver who drives 'inconsiderately' be it a car or a lorry!

[GJD]

Obviously the LGV overtaking is quicker or it would not have caught up with the other so it goes for the overtake.
It is then up to the one being overtaken to ease off a little as per the advice in the HC to allow the other to pass easily.

That's what I'd have thought. I don't drive LGVs, but it seems to me that because of their speed limiters the driver overtaking doesn't have the usual option of squeezing on a few more mph to get on with it and so it's only the driver being overtaken who can do anything about the problem. The only alternative would be to say to LGV drivers that if they catch someone with less than, say, 5mph of speed differential they may not overtake, and that doesn't seem reasonable at all

What often happens is that the driver being overtaken will not knock off the CC or ease off the pedal believing that the one overtaking it should bear the responsibility

Given that the driver overtaking is presumably doing everything possible within the constraints of the speed limiter, that wouldn't seem a very helpful attitude.

[MGF]

... The only alternative would be to say to LGV drivers that if they catch someone with less than, say, 5mph of speed differential they may not overtake, and that doesn't seem reasonable at all.

Seems reasonable enough to me. If the speed differential between me and the vehicle in front is insufficient to overtake without causing significant inconvenience to other road users I wont do it.


It isn't the responsibility of the driver of the vehicle being overtaken to slow down unless it is necessary for safety. My interpretation of the HC is that the slowing down to assist an overtaking vehicle to pass rule applies to single lane carriage-ways not multi-lane ones.

[waremark]

Just read an amusing related question on Pistonheads: 'With most fast cars limited to 155 mph, has anyone in Germany seen elephant racing at 155 mph between two limited cars, with one fractionally faster one taking a long time to get past, holding up an unrestricted car behind?'.

No answers yet.

[GJD]

... The only alternative would be to say to LGV drivers that if they catch someone with less than, say, 5mph of speed differential they may not overtake, and that doesn't seem reasonable at all.

Seems reasonable enough to me. If the speed differential between me and the vehicle in front is insufficient to overtake without causing significant inconvenience to other road users I wont do it.

If you're in a car (excepting waremark's 155mph example ) that's your choice. Every time you catch someone slightly slower, you can choose whether to speed up a bit and overtake or slow down a bit and stay behind. You can choose differently each time. If encumbered by a speed limiter that freedom would not available to you.

In both alternatives we are asking one of the drivers to bear, for the benefit of others, the inconvenience of slowing a little. In once case momentarily, in the other case for quite possibly many miles. It seems to me a no-brainer which is more reasonable to ask for.

Living in Cambridgeshire, most of the elephant races I encounter do not have the additional factor of losing momentum uphill. Not being an LGV driver I don't know how significant that is.

[foxtrot_mike]

Another scenario

If the 2nd lane of the motorway is doing 60mph and the 3rd lane is doing 80mph

Is it inconsiderate to move into the 3rd lane to do 70mph and hold people up at 70?

[ScoobyChris]

Is it inconsiderate to move into the 3rd lane to do 70mph and hold people up at 70?

It depends If you pull out in front of someone to do it then yes. If you find a suitable sized gap and *blend* in then I would say no. Overtaking a car with a 10mph speed differential will be fairly swift and so you won't be holding them up for long...

Chris

[IVORTHE DRIVER]

Another scenario

If the 2nd lane of the motorway is doing 60mph and the 3rd lane is doing 80mph

Is it inconsiderate to move into the 3rd lane to do 70mph and hold people up at 70?

As Scooby has said, at that speed you won't hold them up for long anyway but then of course if you are misjudging their approach speed it makes it a whole different ball game in which case I for one would be severely hacked off with you.

Really it depends on when you pull out rather than how fast you are going, of course if I am the one speeding do I have any right to be hacked off?

I know when driving with the cruise control on I have caught people up with maybe 5mph difference, pulled out only to have them speed up! Do you then speed up as well to get past (and break the speed limit which for a chauffuer is not proffessional) or pull back in behind them (assuming they are now going faster than you) or sit alongside and wait for them to get fed up and drop back, which as most drivers seem unable to maintain any set speed for very long, will happen.

Speed limiters do exactly what it says on the box but I wonder if it would be possible to build in an overide button to allow you to get past another vehicle in safety, maybe limit the overide to a specific time of no longer than 5-10 minutes, this may help avoid the side by side antics on say the M6 over Shap summit, one lorry gets past the other safely and quickly then the limiter reverts back to default.
On the other hand you could just have an Irish truck

Just a thought

[MGF]

...If encumbered by a speed limiter that freedom would not available to you.

Or indeed a car that can't go faster, or by the speed limit. I have driven a minibus with a speed limiter limiting my freedom to choose and had to delay overtakes to avoid inconveniencing other drivers.

In both alternatives we are asking one of the drivers to bear, for the benefit of others, the inconvenience of slowing a little. In once case momentarily, in the other case for quite possibly many miles. It seems to me a no-brainer which is more reasonable to ask for.

We're not actually asking anyone though. We pull out to overtake and hope the other driver will slow. If he doesn't then the onus is on the overtaking driver to abandon the overtake because it is he who chose the manoeuvre. I have done this rather than hold other drivers up. If the speed differential is 1mph you are only losing, roughly, 4 minutes of journey time over 4 hours of driving. Accepting that this is a negligible loss seems to me to be no-brainer.