Non professional blue light ambulance driving

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Postby Tomasz » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:11 pm


My friend's in the St John's ambulance voluteer type people, and they've told me they're going to be trained to drive an ambulance and do blue light runs?!

Sounds rather shocking to me, can't imagine they'd let non professional ambulance drivers undertake advanced and potentially very dangerous driving... would they?!

So, is this rubbish, and if it isn't, anyone know what level of training they're given? I'm assuming (hoping?) it's rather advanced, and I might be up for a bit of free/cheap advanced instruction :)

Cheers,
Tom.
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Postby crr003 » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:18 pm


Tomasz wrote:My friend's in the St John's ambulance voluteer type people, and they've told me they're going to be trained to drive an ambulance and do blue light runs?!

I work with a St John's bloke who says he has a blue light.
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Postby Tomasz » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:21 pm


crr003 wrote:I work with a St John's bloke who says he has a blue light.


But does he use it? :)
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Postby crr003 » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:27 pm


Tomasz wrote:
crr003 wrote:I work with a St John's bloke who says he has a blue light.


But does he use it? :)

He says he does. On his St J Ambulance.
Just because he has a blue light doesn't mean he has any speed exemption - I'll ask him.
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Postby JamesAllport » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:54 pm


Certain volunteers in both the British Red Cross and St John Ambulance are trained and authorised to drive their organisation's vehicles on blues & twos.

In practice, this happens quite rarely in most parts of the country. There are a variety of boring technical reasons which have nothing to do with driving and everything to do with emergency medicine that limit the amount of transporting of patients on bluelights done by volunteer crews.

However, in some parts of the country, SJA and BRC regularly backup the over stretched local ambulance services and, in these cases, driving under emergency conditions is more frequent.

I did some (volunteer) coaching last year for SJA in Sussex. They were training all their drivers to get through a RoADAR test. That was then to be followed by some specific response driving training in-vehicle with a local examiner who is a police advanced driver.

I insisted that all the coaching I did should be done in the ambulance and, although I naturally coached within speed limits and all other legal constraints, I did modify my normal approach.

I was stricter, especially about things like cockpit drills. I taught bolder positioning, and worked hard with my drivers to get them to spot options and opportunities that would be open to them (or not, just as importantly) with blue lights.

Above all, I tried to show them that the key to a quick journey time is very often going slowly enough to give vehicles around you time to react, allowing smooth unhindered passage.

It was fun :D They all got RoADAR Gold.

James
Only two things matter: attitude & entry speeds.
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Postby Roadcraft » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:59 pm


I'm afraid the truth of the matter is much worse..

Many health authorities don't give normal paramedic ambulance drivers blue light training.

They are often given an IAM type course, in Roadcraft etc...but no blue light practise/on-road tuition...

In addition, there's no retest, reevaluation of drivers etc...

The public spends a bit too much time looking at police driver training and misses other obvious flaws in the world...in my experience.
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Postby Johnnie » Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:09 pm


Since October 2006, the driver of any St. John (note no second 's') Ambulance vehicle must have either IAM or RoADAR Silver or above. Certain counties have implemented this as either IAM only or RoADAR Silver or above only. Many counties now have separate IAM and RoADAR groups specifically for this. We do our training and take the test in Crusaders (Renault Master derived A&E ambulances)

Regarding blue light use, I believe that there is no specific law governing qualifications required to drive ambulances on blues and twos. All NHS ambulance staff will have comleted IHCD D2 which is an intensive advanced driving course. Many private ambulance companies have not.

Re the speed limit exemption, The Road Safety Act 2006 (Chapter 49, Section19) contains a provision that "exemption from speed limits does not apply unless the vehicle is being driven by a person who has satisfactorily completed a course of training in the driving of vehicles at high speed provided in accordance with regulations...or is driving the vehicle as part of such a course." I don't know which courses are deemed acceptable. http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/en2006/06en49-a.htm

Your friend should check with his SJA county driving group (and/or join the group) or failing that check with the County Commissioner (Ops) ... or County Commissioner (Training) ... can't remember which.
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Postby crr003 » Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:11 pm


Roadcraft wrote:I'm afraid the truth of the matter is much worse..

Many health authorities don't give normal paramedic ambulance drivers blue light training.

Isn't this being addressed in Road Safety Act 2006?
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Postby Johnnie » Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:22 pm


One other thing I would say is that driving an ambulance at speeds significantly above the speed limit rarely contributes to the ultimate outcome of the patient. In fact, depending on the injury - spinal injuries in particular - driving at speed will be counter-productive.

Your friend should also bear in mind that many SJA counties have policies in place which state that SJA vehicles staffed by volunteers do not do blue light runs on public highways, ever, unless ordered to by a health care professional. Turning the lights / sirens on to get through crowds at an event on private land is another matter, which may even be required by the event risk assessment.
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Postby Roadcraft » Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:45 pm


crr003 wrote:
Roadcraft wrote:I'm afraid the truth of the matter is much worse..

Many health authorities don't give normal paramedic ambulance drivers blue light training.

Isn't this being addressed in Road Safety Act 2006?


I don't know.
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Postby crr003 » Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:31 pm


Roadcraft wrote:
crr003 wrote:Isn't this being addressed in Road Safety Act 2006?


I don't know.

Rubber_Johnnie posted something the same time I did implying there must be training for speed exemption, but not necessarily just for using B&T.
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Postby vonhosen » Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:47 pm


When the relevant section of the Road Safety Act commences anyone using an exemption will have to have successfully completed an "approved" course in order to claim the exemption.

At present the Road Traffic Regulation Act doesn't require that they have had any training beyond their DSA test. They'd just have to have what the employer considers adequate to cover them for Health & Safety legislation.
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Postby Johnnie » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:04 pm


So provided a driver does not claim any exemptions - drives within the speed limit, stops at red traffic lights etc (and has the correct category for the vehicle on their license wrt ambulances) they do not require anything other than the DSA test and relevant insurance to drive under Bs&Ts?

This must be how SJA & BRC have been using blue lights in some areas.
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Postby ipsg.glf » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:06 pm


Von

I wonder if you could explain the different types of courses. I've read in various places that a standard emergency course could be 5, 10 or 15 days long, depending on whether it is beng done for ambulance/blood/rescue or police.

Round my way I regularly see an unmarked Citroen Picasso being used for ambulance driver training.

I imagine there is an awful lot of work goingon the background to ensure commonaliity between all of these sorts of courses.
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Postby kwakba » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:44 pm


ipsg.glf wrote:Von

I wonder if you could explain the different types of courses. I've read in various places that a standard emergency course could be 5, 10 or 15 days long, depending on whether it is beng done for ambulance/blood/rescue or police.

Round my way I regularly see an unmarked Citroen Picasso being used for ambulance driver training.

I imagine there is an awful lot of work goingon the background to ensure commonaliity between all of these sorts of courses.


We have a 5 day EFAD course which teaches fire fighters to drive appliances on blues n two's. Landrover and MRV are one day each. I'm pretty sure officers have to do a 5 day car course. Co-responder van is 1 day.

We have a similar topic on Traffic Answers... http://www.traffic-answers.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=5260.0
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