ADUK Archive

stephenperry wrote:what a great idea 7db, only thing i may be stuck with is the datalogger, although i think you can hire them?

Talk nicely to StressedDave? I fairly sure he has access to one....

The stressed one knows all about that sort of thing and how to make it look nice on screen. I'm sure you can hire his editing knowledge at very immodest rates.

stephenperry wrote:they keep going on about a lack of interest among young people so i think thats going to be the push.... for example a few boy and girl racers turned up to the initial "sell" but didn't sign up, this happens every course i'm told

kids won't be told anything, i certainly wouldn't when i started driving, maybe thefocus on the max power brigade is, although altruistic, slightly futile?

The youngsters almost certainly will not want to be told and neither will certain older individuals - mentioning no names of course.

The key to any such initiative is to establish some kind of understanding with the pupil - for want of a better term - taking the time to see what their attitude is, and what their current driving style is like, and what it all really amounts to. That is going to take a little time, but if the instructor sets about it in the right way it shouldn't take too long, and then they can make some sensible progress together. IMHO unless the right relationship can be established at the outset they'll be wasting each other's time and money.

In any case, this is not just a matter of the instructor teaching the novice how to be a better driver. It is also an opportunity to learn how to be a better instructor/coach/trainer, thanks to the part played by the pupil.

If I were to be playing the part of the novice in this (and I'm certainly not equipped for the other role!) the thing that would kill the relationship stone dead on day one would be to encounter an instructor that came along with the attitude: "I'm the expert and I'm going to be telling you what you have to do, and I'm not much interested in your view of it." I have to admit that it's fear of encountering that sort of approach that keeps £1,000 (OK, £995) in my pocket.

Admittedly that's a fairly extreme portrayal of a possible scenario, but anything approaching that would have a very poor chance of success, certainly with me, and probably with most people, and it would definitely not work with the sort of over-confident youngsters that ought to be on board with any such scheme.

I'm sorry if that sounds a bit negative and unhelpful, but I do think it's important to guard against repelling those who might show some interest. It's difficult enough getting them to even look at what's on offer, that much is already clear.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

There are very few people though, as genuinely difficult as you Dave









only joking

vonhosen wrote:There are very few people though, as genuinely difficult as you Dave









only joking

Yes, well - I think I would need a very good tutor. Let me know when you're available for a day, eh?

Best wishes all,
Dave - not being deliberately awkward; it happens quite naturally.

nuster100 wrote:IMO, the best way to get shot of the old image is to have younger people with you. Whilst I realize its a bit of a catch 22 to start with, If you have some young advanced drivers and some nice cars, you won't go far wrong.

Jay

Your problem with this is that young drivers know it all already. I can remember from doing the Compusory basic training courses.
You just know that the very people who the course is aimed at, are the ONLY people who probably won't take any notice of what you are teaching them. They just want to get on the road.
The 'sensible' candidates who did take a lot of notice, probably didn't need the course in the first place.

The other hurdle to overcome, is that most people these days see driving as a necessity, not a skill. I really like the idea of showing the different hazards/accidents and how the Advanced driver would anticipate/deal with the same set of circumstances and how you can 'foretell the future' by good observation etc That might appeal to the younger driver

KK

TripleS wrote:

stephenperry wrote:they keep going on about a lack of interest among young people so i think thats going to be the push.... for example a few boy and girl racers turned up to the initial "sell" but didn't sign up, this happens every course i'm told

kids won't be told anything, i certainly wouldn't when i started driving, maybe thefocus on the max power brigade is, although altruistic, slightly futile?

The youngsters almost certainly will not want to be told and neither will certain older individuals - mentioning no names of course.

The key to any such initiative is to establish some kind of understanding with the pupil - for want of a better term - taking the time to see what their attitude is, and what their current driving style is like, and what it all really amounts to. That is going to take a little time, but if the instructor sets about it in the right way it shouldn't take too long, and then they can make some sensible progress together. IMHO unless the right relationship can be established at the outset they'll be wasting each other's time and money.

In any case, this is not just a matter of the instructor teaching the novice how to be a better driver. It is also an opportunity to learn how to be a better instructor/coach/trainer, thanks to the part played by the pupil.

If I were to be playing the part of the novice in this (and I'm certainly not equipped for the other role!) the thing that would kill the relationship stone dead on day one would be to encounter an instructor that came along with the attitude: "I'm the expert and I'm going to be telling you what you have to do, and I'm not much interested in your view of it." I have to admit that it's fear of encountering that sort of approach that keeps £1,000 (OK, £995) in my pocket.

Admittedly that's a fairly extreme portrayal of a possible scenario, but anything approaching that would have a very poor chance of success, certainly with me, and probably with most people, and it would definitely not work with the sort of over-confident youngsters that ought to be on board with any such scheme.

I'm sorry if that sounds a bit negative and unhelpful, but I do think it's important to guard against repelling those who might show some interest. It's difficult enough getting them to even look at what's on offer, that much is already clear.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

So, to put it the other way around: If you take the driver's priorities and show them how to achieve them, take on board their experience and show them how to expand it, treat them as a friend who you respect and are maybe even a little impressed by, and add to their already inestimable ability ( ) you're onto a winner.

Basically, start with *them* and move onwards, never starting with somebody else and trying to drag them to that point.

I like 7db's idea, especially if we can make the cluttered nature of the screen emphasise the huge amount of information a driver needs to process and show how much effort it takes to do so effectively.

Being a little potentially controversial myself, I don't really see much of a problem scaring away the "old boys" a little, they're hardly the ones who're most in need of learning how to drive effectively when compared with the target audience of this video...

Cheers & God bless
Sam "SammyTheSnake" Penny

7db wrote:The stressed one knows all about that sort of thing and how to make it look nice on screen. I'm sure you can hire his editing knowledge at very immodest rates.

thanks for the pointers, i've sent him a message

i think i've got adobe premiere sussed, complete novice at adobe after effects though

was given some footage today to watch over and see if useable

stephenperry wrote:was given some footage today to watch over and see if useable

Would it be too cheeky to ask if we could have a look, too?

Cheers & God bless
Sam "SammyTheSnake" Penny

of course you can, i'll get them uploaded over the weekend

they aren't very exciting at all i'm afraid, are you sure you want to see?

yep!!!

SammyTheSnake wrote:

TripleS wrote:

stephenperry wrote:they keep going on about a lack of interest among young people so i think thats going to be the push.... for example a few boy and girl racers turned up to the initial "sell" but didn't sign up, this happens every course i'm told

kids won't be told anything, i certainly wouldn't when i started driving, maybe thefocus on the max power brigade is, although altruistic, slightly futile?

The youngsters almost certainly will not want to be told and neither will certain older individuals - mentioning no names of course.

The key to any such initiative is to establish some kind of understanding with the pupil - for want of a better term - taking the time to see what their attitude is, and what their current driving style is like, and what it all really amounts to. That is going to take a little time, but if the instructor sets about it in the right way it shouldn't take too long, and then they can make some sensible progress together. IMHO unless the right relationship can be established at the outset they'll be wasting each other's time and money.

In any case, this is not just a matter of the instructor teaching the novice how to be a better driver. It is also an opportunity to learn how to be a better instructor/coach/trainer, thanks to the part played by the pupil.

If I were to be playing the part of the novice in this (and I'm certainly not equipped for the other role!) the thing that would kill the relationship stone dead on day one would be to encounter an instructor that came along with the attitude: "I'm the expert and I'm going to be telling you what you have to do, and I'm not much interested in your view of it." I have to admit that it's fear of encountering that sort of approach that keeps £1,000 (OK, £995) in my pocket.

Admittedly that's a fairly extreme portrayal of a possible scenario, but anything approaching that would have a very poor chance of success, certainly with me, and probably with most people, and it would definitely not work with the sort of over-confident youngsters that ought to be on board with any such scheme.

I'm sorry if that sounds a bit negative and unhelpful, but I do think it's important to guard against repelling those who might show some interest. It's difficult enough getting them to even look at what's on offer, that much is already clear.

So, to put it the other way around: If you take the driver's priorities and show them how to achieve them, take on board their experience and show them how to expand it, treat them as a friend who you respect and are maybe even a little impressed by, and add to their already inestimable ability ( ) you're onto a winner.

Basically, start with *them* and move onwards, never starting with somebody else and trying to drag them to that point.

Cheers & God bless
Sam "SammyTheSnake" Penny

Thank you, Sammy. I think that's a nice explanation - for which I'm much obliged, as I regret to say I'm in a spot of bother with somebody over the way I expressed it, so that's nothing new.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

SammyTheSnake wrote:

stephenperry wrote:was given some footage today to watch over and see if useable

Would it be too cheeky to ask if we could have a look, too?

heres the first, let me know if it works or not

http://www.g5pry.co.uk/iamuncutwma256k1.wmv