ADUK Archive

Thanks Von But my next question is, are you allowed to drive over it, or must you go round? As the red bricks are perfectly level with the tarmac, there is no disincentive to go over it. There are no white lines either. Surely, making the raised area a bit bigger would be a better solution?

Mind you, if they put as much thought in to the design as they did the cycle path round the corner from there, then nothing would surprise me

Gromit37 wrote:Thanks Von But my next question is, are you allowed to drive over it, or must you go round? As the red bricks are perfectly level with the tarmac, there is no disincentive to go over it. There are no white lines either. Surely, making the raised area a bit bigger would be a better solution?

Mind you, if they put as much thought in to the design as they did the cycle path round the corner from there, then nothing would surprise me

Strictly speaking you are supposed to make every effort to go around & only go over where it is unavoidable. Part of the function of the roundabout is to slow traffic on approach to assist other traffic getting in safely where they may be slightly unsighted. To this purpose often roundabout islands will be larger than they actually really need to be (they could all be just a white circle painted in the middle of the road & it would be a lot cheaper after all). They are trying to slow you so that you can't approach at speed & straight line through. Of course the painted or cobbled surface ones are trying to combine two functions.
1) Trying to stop you straight lining for the above reasons.
2) Making it possible at the same time for artics to get around them (because it is near industrial estate etc) & the roundabout means they'll be slow anyway.

If you do straight line on it & a collision results, it may provide some evidence towards a without due care.

vonhosen wrote:The red brick area is seperate from the normal road surface. It's part of the roundabout.

Surely for a mini-roundabout, the white paint blob defines the extent that should not be crossed, so any decorative effects on the road surface are not part of the mini-roundabout. Or is there traffic law that says otherwise?

Gareth wrote:Surely for a mini-roundabout, the white paint blob defines the extent that should not be crossed, so any decorative effects on the road surface are not part of the mini-roundabout. Or is there traffic law that says otherwise?

I'd go with that, the regulations for mini-rbs only cover the markings shown in the 'good book' TSRGD and associated signs. The change in road surface type is a form of traffic calming to channel the majority of traffic along a certain path, but to allow an area for larger vehicles to over run to make the desired manoeuvre.

I have issues with these different paved areas as the joints between the main carriageway and the blocks/setts/what ever are normally proud which could be enough to knock off a biker who clips it.

Eric

The bikers on here would "love" our local mini roundabouts as they have a white painted centre with a metre of cobbles around it - great for bikers in the wet!
I wonder which clever road planner dreamt that one up?

Gareth wrote:

vonhosen wrote:The red brick area is seperate from the normal road surface. It's part of the roundabout.

Surely for a mini-roundabout, the white paint blob defines the extent that should not be crossed, so any decorative effects on the road surface are not part of the mini-roundabout. Or is there traffic law that says otherwise?

Perhaps we are talking at cross purposes here.
I am talking about a physical structure (not just paint) at the centre & I am talking about a different road surface between the physical structure at the centre & the normal surface of the road.
If it has a kerb (even if low) it's a physical structure no matter what colour it is, painted or not.

vonhosen wrote:

Gareth wrote:

vonhosen wrote:The red brick area is seperate from the normal road surface. It's part of the roundabout.

Surely for a mini-roundabout, the white paint blob defines the extent that should not be crossed, so any decorative effects on the road surface are not part of the mini-roundabout. Or is there traffic law that says otherwise?

Perhaps we are talking at cross purposes here.
I am talking about a physical structure (not just paint) at the centre & I am talking about a different road surface between the physical structure at the centre & the normal surface of the road.
If it has a kerb (even if low) it's a physical structure no matter what colour it is, painted or not.

I have just described that type at the same time you posted this.
It would require 1st gear or very low 2nd to negotiate around the cobbles as the planners have not left much tarmac to use, so what would be the correct procedure - use the cobbles and miss the white or slow down to 1st gear speed and miss the cobbles?

vonhosen wrote:

Gareth wrote:

vonhosen wrote:The red brick area is seperate from the normal road surface. It's part of the roundabout.

Surely for a mini-roundabout, the white paint blob defines the extent that should not be crossed, so any decorative effects on the road surface are not part of the mini-roundabout. Or is there traffic law that says otherwise?

Perhaps we are talking at cross purposes here.
I am talking about a physical structure (not just paint) at the centre & I am talking about a different road surface between the physical structure at the centre & the normal surface of the road.
If it has a kerb (even if low) it's a physical structure no matter what colour it is, painted or not.

I'm thinking of mini-roundabouts only, as denoted by the blob of white paint in the centre, and the mini-roundabout road-signs on approach. Many of these have two concentric rings of different road surfaces, the inner part being marked by having a different colour from the normal road surface, and perhaps being delineated from the normal road surface by a ring of cobbles or similar, just proud enough from the surfaces either side to cause a slight rumble effect.

I contend that if the junction follows the rules for mini-roundabouts in terms of road paint and signage, then coloured road surface has no legal meaning.

This has turned quite nerdy...for those with an unhealthy interest in 'interesting roundabouts' can I suggest you satiate your urge at
http://www.roundaboutsofbritain.com/?

martine wrote:This has turned quite nerdy...for those with an unhealthy interest in 'interesting roundabouts' can I suggest you satiate your urge at
http://www.roundaboutsofbritain.com/?

Are you willing to admit how you came across that site Martine?

Big Err wrote:Are you willing to admit how you came across that site Martine?

Dammit...errr...a friend has an interest...



(actually I just entered 'roundabouts' into google as I had heard of it before somewhere)

martine wrote:Dammit...errr...a friend has an interest...

There's actually a guy who is heavily into Mini Roundabouts on a professional level, and he has even published a book about them.

"Mini-roundabouts Getting them right!" by Clive Sawers MA(Cantab), MICE,CEng

www.mini-roundabout.com

I only know this through my profession ofcourse..

Eric

PS you may find his book in your local library next to 'Fly Fishing' by J R Hartley.

I think in Gareth's example it is a case of the authority wanting to reduce speeds through the junction without the complication/expense of finding a regulation or putting in street furniture to do the job.

Changing the colour of the road surface will discourage people from using that part of the roundabout without committing the authority to preventing anyone using it.

Personally I would be reluctant to use it to create two lanes of traffic but would have no problem using it to 'straighten' the roundabout exercising the usual caution as I would when crossing white lines.

Regarding the 'paintwork' of the mini in question, this is as follows.
There is a dot of 2 meters diameter which is surrounded by a circle which is 20cm thickness.The distance from the edge of the dot to the inside edge of that circle is approx 80cm.The second circle surrounds the first and is also 20cm width and the gap between the outer edge of the inner circle and the inner edge of the second is also 80cm.Thus the distance from the centre of the dot to the outside edge of the second ring is 3 metres.

The 3 direction arrows are outside of the rings.The unpainted bits are no more than normal tarmac.The paint is white.

Come to Swindon! Every _possible_ junction is given a mini-roundabout regardless of whether it is suitable in size, shape, or weight of traffic . Some of them would be hard to get round on a pushbike, let alone a car. The HGVs just have to drive straight over them. I wonder if we should introduce the 4 way stop here for small junctions. Roundabouts work well on larger junctions with moderate traffic flow, but even then break down under heavy traffic conditions.