National speed limit lowered to 50 Mph

[Red Herring]

Do you really think the sort of driver who drives on rural roads at the sorts of speeds that means they cannot stop in the distance they can see to be clear is the least bit interested in what the speed limit is? Even if these drivers can see you, or the horse riders, or the pedestrians, they don't necessarily slow down either. I don't think lowering the speed limit is the answer, I'm not even convinced there is a problem with speeds on rural roads, it's far more to do with attitudes.

[PeterE]

I heard today that another enjoyable NSL rural road - the A5004 Long Hill between Whaley Bridge and Buxton in Derbyshire - has become the latest to be cut to 50

Very little NSL left now in that part of the world

[Gareth]

Do you really think the sort of driver who drives on rural roads at the sorts of speeds that means they cannot stop in the distance they can see to be clear is the least bit interested in what the speed limit is?.

The same could apply to drivers who can stop in the distance they can see to be clear, (and can reasonably expect to remain so). Speed limits are being reduced far below these levels; witness the speeds that police drivers are willing to use when they are in a hurry to get somewhere, and use that to determine appropriate speed limits.

[vonhosen]

Do you really think the sort of driver who drives on rural roads at the sorts of speeds that means they cannot stop in the distance they can see to be clear is the least bit interested in what the speed limit is?.

The same could apply to drivers who can stop in the distance they can see to be clear, (and can reasonably expect to remain so). Speed limits are being reduced far below these levels; witness the speeds that police drivers are willing to use when they are in a hurry to get somewhere, and use that to determine appropriate speed limits.

I don't think you can use the speeds that Police are willing to travel at to establish appropriate speed limits. Their risk management should be different to that of normal driving because what they are attending/doing dictates different levels of risk being acceptable.

[Gareth]

I don't think you can use the speeds that Police are willing to travel at to establish appropriate speed limits. Their risk management should be different to that of normal driving because what they are attending/doing dictates different levels of risk being acceptable.

Are you saying that police drivers sacrifice safety and travel faster than the speed at which they can stop in the distance they can see to be clear and reasonably expect to remain so?

Well then, how about asking suitably trained police drivers for their expert assessment of that criteria when setting speed limits?

Oh, I forgot, that's what we used to do, and now those responsible for setting the limits seem to listen to anyone spouting a load of tripe instead.

[The Thinker]

Are we going to have a man with a red flag as the next step.

[Red Herring]

I don't think you can use the speeds that Police are willing to travel at to establish appropriate speed limits. Their risk management should be different to that of normal driving because what they are attending/doing dictates different levels of risk being acceptable.

Are you saying that police drivers sacrifice safety and travel faster than the speed at which they can stop in the distance they can see to be clear and reasonably expect to remain so?

Well then, how about asking suitably trained police drivers for their expert assessment of that criteria when setting speed limits?

Oh, I forgot, that's what we used to do, and now those responsible for setting the limits seem to listen to anyone spouting a load of tripe instead.

Gareth, I think that the faster the vehicle is going the higher potential danger there is should anything go wrong. Police drivers don't drive at response speeds all the time, it tends to be for short periods during which their concentration remains extremely high and hopefully if they are doing everything correctly they manage it in relative safety, however even they occasionally make mistakes. There was once a saying that class one driver don't have many accidents, but if they do it generally won't T cut out! I guess what i am saying is that just because a police driver can drive a length of road safely at speed does not imply that the "average" motorist would be able to achieve the same degree of safety at the same speed.

As for your last paragraph, you are unfortunately oh so right......

[jmaccyd]

As someone who cycles on rural, National Speed limit roads, I have become conserned about not just the standard of driving, but the exess speed that is generally involved on this type of road. Of course these roads are not just shared by cyclists, but by horse riders, pedestrains and slow moving farm traffic.


I am not in favour of a blanket 'one-size-fits-all' speed limit like that proposed, and I am not familiar with the type of roads mentioned in this article, but am in favour of lower speed limits on rural roads. With the standard of driver ability/education in this country far to often 60MPH is taken as the speed to drive at regardless of the view ahead, or the type of road conditions that are prevailling at the time

So how far do you lower the limit? Wouldn't you rather educate all drivers in the art of stopping in the clear distance, rather than limiting speed, which could still be far too high?

My general view is that I would rather have a highly trained motoring citizenry (if that makes any sense!) This would require less policing and would probably mean fewer people having the wealth and ability to drive a car. Where we are now is a low standard of driving that brings with it the need for stricter policing.

[Red Herring]

Sorry, I don't quite follow that. Are we saying that if motoring is made more expensive there will be fewer people on the road and that as there is a link between wealth and intelligence (premier footballers excepted...) we will therefore get a more knowledgeable motoring public.....

or are we saying that we should require a higher skill level to get a licence, and therefore reduce the likely number of people able to reach it?

Unfortunately they have both been tried already, you just end up with loads of people driving illegally, bit like we have at the moment with regard to insurance premiums and driving licence offences!

[jmaccyd]

Sorry, I don't quite follow that. Are we saying that if motoring is made more expensive there will be fewer people on the road and that as there is a link between wealth and intelligence (premier footballers excepted...) we will therefore get a more knowledgeable motoring public.....

or are we saying that we should require a higher skill level to get a licence, and therefore reduce the likely number of people able to reach it?

I didn't make any link between wealth and intelligence! What I am saying is that if driving tests become harder, more regular and require a greater investment in time and hard earned cash to pass then there is an inevitable increase in the financial costs and the number of people failing (nothing to do with intelligence). I also wonder how many people driving out there now would pass a re-test and an eye sight check?

I sometime wonder if the Safe Speed people want there cake and eat it. We should be free to drive, treated like adults to make important decisions correctly, oh and by the way one basic test conducted years ago gives me that 'right' If we accept the need for mass motoring for people of all driving abilities, with no restrictions for wealth then we by extension accept the need for a general standard of motoring that then requires active policing

[Red Herring]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you did. I made the link.
I think that if you introduce a requirement for more training and a tougher testing regime you will also increase the number of persons who will be unable to afford the training or reach the required standard. It may be that those persons will then cease to drive, however it is more likely that they will simply drive illegally.

I ask myself, would I rather have a higher proportion of legal, but less skilled drivers on the road, or a higher number of more highly skilled drivers but with a larger proportion of illegal drivers. Given that illegal drivers tend not to have insurance either, or register/MOT/Tax their vehicles, making them harder to trace in the event of an incident, it could be argued that it is better to accept a slightly lower standard of driving in exchange for a higher proportion of legal drivers. Of course in the perfect world we would insist on a higher standard of driving and effective policing to deter/remove illegal drivers, but that's a long way off at present, especially given that at the moment, despite what we may think, we actually have quite a good standard of driving in the UK.

[jmaccyd]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you did. I made the link.
I think that if you introduce a requirement for more training and a tougher testing regime you will also increase the number of persons who will be unable to afford the training or reach the required standard. It may be that those persons will then cease to drive, however it is more likely that they will simply drive illegally.

Indeed, and of course you also make motoring even more the preserve of the wealthy. However, if we argue that 'attitude' to the use of speed is more important than the actual posting of a speed limit then we need more motorists making the right decisions over the use of speed. Most motorists in the UK do make a good fist of it, but there are ten people a day who wish they would do better!

[Red Herring]

I think it's a little presumptuous to imply that the ten deaths are the direct result of excess, or even inappropriate, speed.

[jmaccyd]

I think it's a little presumptuous to imply that the ten deaths are the direct result of excess, or even inappropriate, speed.

Sorry not quite what I meant. The ten deaths a day was referring to decision making in general rather than just related to speed. I believe the last figures (from memory) stated that speed was a factor in 40% of fatal collisions

[Red Herring]

Excess speed, as in over the posted limit, or inappropriate speed as in wrong for the conditions?