Photo-card Licence Renewal: 7.5 Tonne Minibus & Trailer

[Darren]

On the horse trailer towing front, the other problem regularly occuring is that those passing the "L" test from Jan. 1997 don't have D1 or C1, so need to pass another "L" test for Minibus or to tow a combination over 3,500 KGM and most, if not all, horse trailer combinations are over that!

yep, my licence was awarded in Nov 96

[ROG]

On the horse trailer towing front, the other problem regularly occuring is that those passing the "L" test from Jan. 1997 don't have D1 or C1, so need to pass another "L" test for Minibus or to tow a combination over 3,500 KGM and most, if not all, horse trailer combinations are over that!

yep, my licence was awarded in Nov 96

DVLA info on towing & licence rules

[MGF]

Thanks to MGF for that most useful link:
http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?

but please note my *highlights* in the quoted Law:

>> (1) In so far as a licence authorises its holder to drive motor vehicles of classes *other than any prescribed class of goods vehicle or any prescribed class of passenger-carrying vehicle*, it shall, unless previously revoked or surrendered, remain in force-...

So it is possible that C1 and D1 are now "prescribed classes of goods vehicle or passenger-carrying vehicle".

No, because as you have now discovered they only apply to D1 proper and post 1997 C1 categories. (I didn't quote subsection 2 or go into this for the sake of clarity)

The only difficulty for me is the use of 'surrendered' in subsection 1.

Arguably, if you are required to 'surrender' your licence when the photocard expires then your entitlement is affected.

But this appears to be dealt with by ss 7 which requires the SoS to grant a new licence on surrender.

It may be that 'surrender' applies, for example, to a situation where you give up your licence to avoid having to provide medical info to the DVLA to retain it.

I still have seen nothing to convince me that entitlement ends when the photocard expires. In fact, if anything, I am more convinced it doesn't.

[michael769]

It's a bit like not changing the address when you move - you get fined for it but it has no bearing on the legal right to drive.

Actually it does as it is unlawful to drive a vehicle unless you have complied fully with the conditions on your license. In both cases you are comitting the offence "driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence".

As well as the fine you can expect 6 -11 points or a driving ban. You will also have no valid insurance - more fines, points, and siezure of your vehicle for that one too.

[MGF]

Norwich Union are not using failure to renew a photocard licence as a reason to void a claim.

It is worth pointing out that not complying with your obligations to update your licence may affect your insurance but it wouldn't be fair to say it will.

Thisarticle claims that an invalid licence does not affect entitlement.


"However a DVLA spokesperson has said that a motorist's entitlement to drive will not be affected by failure to update the photo on the licence"

So will it be affected by updating the photo as has been suggested?

[ROG]

It's a bit like not changing the address when you move - you get fined for it but it has no bearing on the legal right to drive.

Actually it does as it is unlawful to drive a vehicle unless you have complied fully with the conditions on your license. In both cases you are comitting the offence "driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence".

As well as the fine you can expect 6 -11 points or a driving ban. You will also have no valid insurance - more fines, points, and siezure of your vehicle for that one too.

Can anyone site a case where someone who did not change their address on a licence was given penalty points for it

[Red Herring]

My understanding of the insurance is that you are insured provided the driver "holds or has held" a driving licence, (and is not disqualified) so even if your driving licence had expired you would still be covered by your insurance. Certainly failure to notify DVLA of a change of address is a separate offence, but it does not invalidate your insurance.

[MGF]

I think the 'has held' is an exception in the RTA to the offence of driving without a licence which is perhaps why the points and potential disqualification wouldn't apply to someone whose valid licence is not upto date.

[Darren]

Just to report back, licence turned up today. I still have C1, C1+E, D1 D1+E

[ROG]

I have just called DVLA.

If the photo is not renewed and the driver gets pulled then it is only a fine of max £1,000 and is not endorseable (points) - the same applies to not changing an address.
It in no way has any bearing on the validity of the licence in respect of the legal right to drive a vehicle for which the driver is entitled to drive.

At age 70, a medical which is the same one for LGVs & PCVs must be passed to retain pre 97 D1 & C1 entitlements.
This can cost from about £50 upwards and is worth shopping around for.

Have a medical to prove you are physically fit to drive a D1 or C1 using Form D4
Download the 8 page D4 Medical FormUsing this Link Please print and take to your GP if you have the facilities at home or work.
Please contact your GP or visit www.driversmedicals.com who can provide low-cost medical examinations.
THIS LINK will take you to a list of some cheap medical places around the UK.

[SammyTheSnake]

DVLA info on towing & licence rules

I'm really cross with my driving examiner, then, who assured me under direct questioning that I wasn't entitled to pull *any* trailer, and it's clear from that document that B+E applies only to cars puling trailers over 750Kg. OK, so I can' t pull a caravan, but a small trailer full of garden rubbish for the tip, for example...

(edit: I passed after 1997)

/rant

I guess I should've pressed him on the other issue he avoided answering, then, which was "what is the speed limit on a roundabout with NSL markers on the roundabout, and both dual carriageway and single carriageway roads adjoining?"

Anyone know the answer to that one?

Cheers & God bless
Sam "SammyTheSnake" Penny

[ROG]

I guess I should've pressed him on the other issue he avoided answering, then, which was "what is the speed limit on a roundabout with NSL markers on the roundabout, and both dual carriageway and single carriageway roads adjoining?"

Anyone know the answer to that one?

If the opposing traffic flows are seperated by something other than paint or plastic cones then it is a dual.

[SammyTheSnake]

But what does "opposing traffic flows" mean on a roundabout? They're the *same* traffic flow!

I think the question boils down to whether a roundabout counts as a dual carriageway where each lane eventually becomes the other, or whether it counts as a circular one-way single-carriageway...

Unless there's a specific mention of it in whatever the relevant law is, I really don't feel confident deciding that question!

Having said that, the only roundabouts I know of which are specifically marked as NSL join dual carriageways / motorways only, or single carriageways only, while conversely, all the roundabouts I know of that join DCs to SCs are marked with red circled speed limits...

Add to that that there are precious few places where a RAB can safely be taken at 70mph and it becomes a somewhat accademic question, but it's still a question! :p

Cheers & God bless
Sam "SammyTheSnake" Penny

[ROG]

But what does "opposing traffic flows" mean on a roundabout? They're the *same* traffic flow!

Exactly

no opposing flow of traffic so not a single carriageway

[MGF]

I recall discussing this extensively on the IAM forum and doing a lot of reading on this. I came to the conclusion that it is most likely that a roundabout is a single carriageway (one-way) and so subject to the SC limit.