Bad Driving ----- Lost my cool

[SammyTheSnake]

Perhaps my smiley wasn't obvious enough. In the description you gave, it was *me* that ended up punted under a lorry. I figured it was a typo, but still worth poking fun at.

... I though ...

Cheers & God bless
Sam "SammyTheSnake" Penny

[jbsportstech]

I am not saying that I have the right to give the a repremand.. I am not trying to cause an arguement dave, just wondered if that was your own personal opinion. No generally regardless of whatever driving accalades unless you are a serving officier on duty then challanging anyone in a raid rage style scenario is unadvisable.

I was simply stating it happened I am not proud of it but sometimes we are all pushed a bit far. I gave my reasons for the loss of control.

[MGF]

OK, you deliberately drive a car at someone and cause their death. There is no malice aforethought, so it's not murder and thus is manslaughter...

What you thought you might get away with running someone down deliberately and cop to death by dangerous? I'm sure MGF will be along with chapter and verse at some point, but my copy of Butterworths is 5 years out of date and sitting on a shelf 40 miles away from by current geographical location.

No need for chapter and verse but malice aforethought could relate to any intent to cause harm regardless of whether there was intent to kill, and intent to kill hasn't been necessary for murder for a lot longer than 5 years.

I agree it is right to state that deliberately driving a car at someone and killing them is most likely to end up in a manslaughter conviction, (but not of the victim. ) but wrong to presume that anyone on here suggested that CDBDD would be the appropriate charge.

[jbsportstech]

Interesting MGF:

At the end of the day her car was boxed in so no chance fo her running me over and however upset I was it never passed my mind to try and harm let alone run her down.

[AnalogueAndy]

Well done jb for 'owning up', hopefully a lesson learnt not to be repeated. I agree she is very unlikely to modify her behaviour as a result of you speaking to her and as happens in so many cases you were lucky it didn't de-generate into something nasty which could have landed you in a lot more trouble

I know it's not always easy but part of being an AD is not letting the Red Mist come down and cloud your judgement. In the situation you described perhaps the answer was not to rise to the challenge but instead to re-focus on what you could have done to improved the safety of all involved - increase the distance between you and the one ahead (giving yourself more time to slow or stop), slow a little perhaps or even pull over and let her pass.

Thankfully it appears her tailgating was more ignorance than a 'deliberate' attempt to intimidate you.

[TripleS]

The only way you can make a difference to road safety is by driving as safely as you can, being aware of other people's foibles and making it as easy as possible for them to get out of situations they've got themselves into.

....and with a bit of luck, if there is reasonable time and space available they might also help me out when I've made a balls of something - which I'm afraid I sometimes do.

I don't get too worked up about mistakes made by others; I'm more concerned about the ones I'm responsible for - or should I say the ones for which I'm responsible. (That last bit is just in case CK is keeping tabs on us. He knows how to rite this stuff proper.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[TripleS]

In my experience what happens is that as you get out of your car to remonstrate they drive at you out of fear/agression and punt you under the wheels of an oncoming lorry. You get lifted for manslaughter and spend several uncomfortable days gripping the rail at the Old bailey ans several uncomfortable years after that gripping something else in the Scrubs...

Did I miss something here, or did manslaughter get redefined to include being run over? :p

Cheers & God bless
Sam "SammyTheSnake" Penny

Yes, I noticed that too. I expect young Dave is making an early start with his 'senior moments'.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[zadocbrown]

Why are we so reluctant to just pull over and let the buggers go somewhere else?

'Teaching a lesson' to other drivers is a bad idea, period.
Interfering with other people's driving, or confronting them at the roadside will only ever escalate the situation. If their driving is already showing signs of psychosis how on earth are they going to react when you box them in/make gestures/attempt to lecture them?

Unless we're the police, or their driving instructor, our job is to avoid dodgy driving, not to aggravate it. If it's really bad report it, otherwise get over it.

So lets try to avoid (even when it's 'morally justified') :

Refusing to do the obvious (eg pull over) just because we don't see why we should (why put yourself at risk?)

Getting worked up over other people's stupidity at the expense of our own driving and well being (what's the point?)

Making any display of displeasure (are you so perfect? And how do you know the other driver isn't an axe murderer?)

Allowing our emotional state to influence driving decisions (if it wasn't safe yesterday it won't become safe today just because you're pissed off)


There's no such thing as righteous indignation when we're driving. Emotions should be in neutral; and if they're not, it's our own fault and nobody else's.

End of sermon [/i]

[martine]

Well said Zadoc - concentrating on others bad driving is something I am guilty of and you summed up what we all really know we should be thinking/doing.

I must admit I've never been tempted to have a word with someone but I do, sometimes, get sucked in to the competiveness displayed by some drivers. The classic that winds me up (and I know it shouldn't) is when someone moves to an outside lane to overtake that we all know is about to merge shortly...it's very difficult sometimes not to close the gap in front (I know, I know ).

There feel better for that - this is like the A.A. "I am supposedly an advanced driver but sometimes...".

[TripleS]

I don't get too worked up about mistakes made by others; I'm more concerned about the ones I'm responsible for - or should I say the ones for which I'm responsible. (That last bit is just in case CK is keeping tabs on us. He knows how to rite this stuff proper.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Thank you, Dave, for considering my sensibilities.

Not at all, old bean.** One endeavours to maintain awareness, and function accordingly.

** Well he's older than me!

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[zadocbrown]

I might add that i've seen a clear correlation between how critical people are of other people's driving, and how uncritical they are of their own.

The drivers I most fear to travel with invariably spend a lot of time remonstrating with other drivers. The best drivers never do this, because they expect to encounter bad driving, and know that most of it can be neutralised quite easily.

Most of us experience annoyance from time to time. We can't stop this happening, but we can choose to drive as if we were not feeling that way. The more you do this over time, the less anger you feel in the first place.

We all spend a lot of time working on our car control, but often the weakest link is our self control. Never do anything in the heat of the moment that you wouldn't advise a freind to do in the cold light of day.

[TripleS]

Zadoc - if I may say so, I very much agree with the tone you've adopted on this topic. I believe what you're advocating is the best approach.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Sru_1980]

Zadoc - agree there totally. Martine, I also get competitive sometimes, which is totally pointless I admit! I think I "have to prove a point" usually when I'm being tailgated and end up putting my foot down or something - I know, the only "point" I'm proving is that I'm as much of an idiot as the other person.

I have been putting AD techniques into practise, and find that when I focus totally on what I'm doing, I don't become so wound up by other people. The only person who's to blame when I do is myself! Difficult at times, but better than exacerbating an already potentially dangerous situation.

I'm now an honourary IAM associate, btw - can't afford the SFL package ATM, unfortunately, what with Christmas coming up n all that but will hopefully be doing the business in the new year...!
Laters,

Ursula

[notaboyracer]

I've got a friend who was once in the situation where someone was right on their bumper and dealt with it in a way that still makes me laugh now.

What he did was stop at some red lights, and as soon as it changed to amber (on the way back to green) he got out of the car, pulled down his trousers and said:

'This is what my arse looks like, now you've seen it close up you can keep your f***ing distance!'.



BTW it did work!


When I'm driving I tend to agree with the people suggesting pulling over for really close/aggressive tailgaters, not just because of their driving but because I don't think I drive as well with the distraction of someone that close: I can't stop looking in the rear view mirror far too much and I'm worried I might miss something important while I'm looking behind me.

[TripleS]

When I'm driving I tend to agree with the people suggesting pulling over for really close/aggressive tailgaters, not just because of their driving but because I don't think I drive as well with the distraction of someone that close: I can't stop looking in the rear view mirror far too much and I'm worried I might miss something important while I'm looking behind me.

I think that's the factor that is most likely to lead to trouble; the distraction effect on the leading driver.

Most people on these forums can probably guard against that fairly well, but normal drivers - perhaps less secure in their attitude and techniques - can easily have their own risk of error increased.

Best wishes all,
Dave.