Can you folks answer this... now more info.......

[MGF]

That looks like cover for giving a demo drive in your own car rather than the associate's.

[ROG]

So does that mean that the supervising driver MUST drive the vehicle if the learner is unable to for any reason

If you mean swap seats to drive then it seems obvious that there is no obligation on the supervisor to do so.

Just to clarify -

The supervising driver does not legally have to swap seats with the learner if the learner gets into a situation that requires the supervising driver to drive out of - the car or whatever vehicle can just be abandoned where it is

That don't seem right to me...........

[MGF]

Isn't that what an examiner would do if he thought a provisional driver's driving was unsafe? Once the driving has stopped so too has the duty to supervise.

[fungus]

When a learner takes their driving test, they are technicaly driving unsupervised. The examiner only intervenes either verbally or physicaly, to prevent an accident.

If the candidate drives in a manner that endangers the public or other road users, the examiner will terminate the test, and both examiner and candidate will walk, or find some other way to get back to the test centre.

Even though an instructors insurance would be an any driver policy, examiners are not permitted to drive by the DSA. This is probably because some candidates use their own cars on test and the insurance would probably not cover the examiner to drive the car.

Nigel ADI
IAM trainee observer.

[GS]

If an accompanying driver had to grab the steering wheel, or apply the brakes (hand brake) that could be argued as 'driving'. Driving is often defined as having control of the direction and or speed of the vehicle. I would suggest that this is what could be reasonably expected of someone taking control in an emergency.

If someone was accompanying a learner and was not in a position to do this I personally would argue that they should not be accompanying the learner because they are not in a position to do anything in an emergency. What you describe, driver out of hours so could not / would not act in this way, I would say would mean that they could not accompany a learner. How would you feel if for this reason the qualified driver / passenger did not try to take control if the learner was heading for a crash into your family?

I know that actually physically doing something in larger vehicles is very hard because of the size and layout of the cabs.

This idea sounds like trying to cut safety corners to try and save money. OK if you get away with it, big trouble if you don't.

[ROG]

Is there a legal precidence for what I am asking

[zadocbrown]

Senario -

The supervising driver is in the passenger seat of their own car.
They have a broken foot and hand and cannot physically drive the car.

The learner is a family member

Is the supervising driver legal as they cannot take over the driving if the learner gets into difficulty

If the supervising driver is not qualified to do so, wouldn't it be the learner who is committing the offence? (Driving unsupervised). It would be as if the superviser wasn't there.

[GS]

Is there a legal precidence for what I am asking

Probably not.

I suspect that might partly be because no one has been stupid enough to put themselves (accompanying driver and actual driver) in that position.

[zadocbrown]

I think the answer is no, you don't have legally have to be able to drive the vehicle, only to be qualified to drive a vehicle of that class. But you do have to abide by the same laws as the learner by way of alchohol limits, mobile phones etc. if the driver is provisional only. I imagine driving hours might fall into the same category.

I can't think of any situation where you could be compelled to drive the vehicle as such. Nor is there a specific responsibility to take control, only to give all reasonable supervision. Of course this could involve taking control, but essentially you could only be found to be legally bound to have taken action if it was proved that you were negligent in not doing so. I could see this happening if you were in a dual controlled vehicle which ploughed into the back of someone; but under most circumstances I think it would be difficult to make a charge stick. That's just my interpretation, I suspect this is a rather grey area legally.

I seem to remember being told that the regulations concerning disabled supervisors were updated largely to allow disabled people to qualify as ADIs. Obviously it wouldn't be prudent to allow someone to supervise learners professionally if they can't reach the steering.

[ROG]

Just to put a silly but possible senario -

The learner is pulling out of a junction and stalls then panics and gets out the car - now what

Is the legal onus now on the supervising driver to move tha car which is now in an unsafe position

[zadocbrown]

Just to put a silly but possible senario -

The learner is pulling out of a junction and stalls then panics and gets out the car - now what

Is the legal onus now on the supervising driver to move tha car which is now in an unsafe position

If it's the supervisers car I'd say yes. If it's the learners car no.

[ScoobyChris]

I'm not sure there's any legal onus to move the car?

Chris

[zadocbrown]

Effectively the vehicle is illegally parked, which is the owner's responsibility.

[MGF]

Just to put a silly but possible senario -

The learner is pulling out of a junction and stalls then panics and gets out the car - now what

Is the legal onus now on the supervising driver to move tha car which is now in an unsafe position

Push it?

There is no legal duty on a supervisor except when the learner is driving. As soon the learner gets out of the car the supervisor cannot be said to be supervising.

Nor is there a specific responsibility to take control, only to give all reasonable supervision.

“...momentarily taking over control of the steering or of the engine may well amount to ‘driving’ as one of the main duties of a supervisor of a learner driver is to take control of the car in an emergency.”

Seems like quite a specific responsibility to me.

[zadocbrown]

Just to put a silly but possible senario -

The learner is pulling out of a junction and stalls then panics and gets out the car - now what

Is the legal onus now on the supervising driver to move tha car which is now in an unsafe position

Push it?

There is no legal duty on a supervisor except when the learner is driving. As soon the learner gets out of the car the supervisor cannot be said to be supervising.

Nor is there a specific responsibility to take control, only to give all reasonable supervision.

“...momentarily taking over control of the steering or of the engine may well amount to ‘driving’ as one of the main duties of a supervisor of a learner driver is to take control of the car in an emergency.”

Seems like quite a specific responsibility to me.

What was the context of the ruling? I wasn't clear whether the duties of a supervisor were central to the judgement or incidental.