Traffic Cops

[jbsportstech]

No I like abs and reconise its value don't disable it. I only disable what is designed to be switchable buy the manufacter. Even with my tcs/btcs of I am told some elements of system are still active and they only way to deactivate this to remove the abs/tcs fuse thus losing both! I don't drive my car in such a irractic and out of balance manner I have yet to had these feature cut in.

I am comfortable driving vehicles without abs and I have been familar with cadence braking long b4 I became a member of roadar. I didnt drive abs equiped vehicles for the first 3 years of my driving career. I have since driven friends/gfs non abs vehicles and my partners first two cars where 97 fiesta and 95 polo both of which ha no abs electronic aids. I once had some cut in front of me on the approach to a roundabout on multi lane carriageway and if I hadn't be able to use cadence braking I would most likely of collided with the rear of that vehicle. Also I had a abs'sd volvo s40 2.0 sport and traded it in for a pre facelift non abs 1.8 zetec focus for 4 months 13k and I was able to adapt and not get myself into any sitautions.

My main gripe with the standard focus mk1 brakes are the front disks abs or not are quiet small and suffer from fade at multilane (60+) speeds where as the ST has heavy duty 300mm discs on the front I think they are 3.5 ton transit derived (They stop less than 1300kg of focus very well indeed) and RS 280mm discs on the back further help on my example by ap disc and pads alround.

[crr003]

.....I don't drive my car in such a irractic and out of balance manner I have yet to had these feature cut in......

Why bother switching them off then?!

[jont]

I've never turned an active safety system off in my life, even on circuit, although I often take clients onto the ABS area at Millbrook and show why you wouldn't want to and why you really should like ABS far more than ESP.

My old 405 had a fairly basic ABS system that I ended up pulling the fuse on while grass autotesting. It seemed handbrake turns caused it to throw a hissy fit.

[jbsportstech]

Youthful bravado

I've never turned an active safety system off in my life, even on circuit, although I often take clients onto the ABS area at Millbrook and show why you wouldn't want to and why you really should like ABS far more than ESP.

Afternoon Mr Turner you say youthful bravado but Nigel has a similar attittude to esp/tcs systems which I find over sensative in alot of cars including the passat and rather than just correct skid it will almost bring the car halt which isn't always necessary and doesnt aid progress. Nigel will always advise you to check with your sinurance company b4 turning them off but I did this long b4 I met him.

I am not trying to sound like some master of car control (I certainly am not) but I have a degree of car control recongnition off skids etc. I may well be wrong but I drove cars b4 this aids where common place and so I like to be in full control. ABS is brilliant and I would never switch it off as it aids car control rather than kills your progress.

The main issue with any of these aids is they seem to cause alot drivers to lul into false sense of security and in some cases people steam around without feeling they need to concentrate on driving and they just think the mass of electronic aids will save the day and in alot of cases they don't.

[daz6215]

Youthful bravado

and why you really should like ABS far more than ESP.

Hi Dave can you elaborate on this please.Purely to increase my knowledge , thanks

[jbsportstech]

From my point of view abs system (especially modern ones) apply and release the brake pressure so much faster than even the most skilled driver employing cadence braking so they allow you to a) Concentrate on steering the vehicle to a place of safety rather to punching the brakes with you foot and releasing and trying to steer b) Your energy and concentration can be better focused into observing what is happening and choosing an appropriate course when you foot is only having to maintain constant pressure on the brake pedal.

[martine]

jbsportstech: still don't understand your keeness to switch off a safety aid...if you're not driving hard enough to trigger it (good) then the only time it might activate is if you've had something unintentional happen (yours or someone else's)...that won't effect your 'progress' but might just ruin your whole day.

'Off' on the track yes but most defintely 'on' for the road.

Also take a look at:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=j-hHWSQhKuc

[jbsportstech]

I once drove a current volvo s40 in which I was told the dstc switch off the electronic get me out of trouble. I have a modercum of skid recongition and correction and it was a winters morning and in a bend I hit a patch of ice causing the to oversteer to a degree, I immediatly and automatically accelerated and steered into the skid and as I did the car suddenly took over and went all over the place fighting my input and it almost brought the car to complete halt by braking on certain wheels via esp style system.

Had I not attempted to correct the skid and let the car it may well have sorted it out but with my instinctive intervention it became more dangerous than it needed to be. It turns out on most volvos when it the dtsc switch is pressed it turns off the traction control element only.

[daz6215]

JB you should be a politician with those answers lol

[jbsportstech]

JB you should be a politician with those answers lol

Thanks and only 26 years old!!

I am considering getting involved in local polotics. My partners recently deceased grand farther /councilor and chief jp often said i should get involved if I don't like the way things are run. His wife my daughters great g mother has stood for his seat and I helped out with canpaign so I am considering politics in the future.

[crr003]

There is someone in the team who may be familiar.

You wouldn't want the one first on the left to be after you - but then he might not be able to smash your window in......?
Fifth from left is always on the telly.

[MGF]

Am I reading this right? With your "limited talent" you drove a new M3 and didn't lose the back end and yet these guys (who have undergone significantly more and better quality training) would?

Chris

I think what he means is that this handling training is lost on drivers who subsequently drive cars with lots of electronic 'help'.

At the end of the day I think the police need all the help they can get to drive safely (and I mean that in a positive way).

Perhaps Von would throw some light on this but I get the impression pure handling skills are not hugely important to police driving and it probably isn't the best use of resources to concentrate on them.

I would even go as far as to suggest the Roadcraft system is designed to allow police officers to drive safely without outstanding handling skills.

[jbsportstech]

If your car is fitted with these aids i think unless your track driving you would be a fool to disengage them, the link i have posted is for ESP , watch it through and tell me if you could control the vehicle better without it.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=akZ9AaFB7Zc

Sorry can't view photobucket, u-tube and the like while at work its filtered.

Whether or not it can correct very difficult situations in in these staged test video I have seen the tester knows whats comming and doesnt interveen, where as when in that spilt second I instinctivley react. I was driving around not spinning of the road when I was young foolish 17 yr old doing 122mph (Police checked) on the north devon link and didnt manage to loose control mk3 cavalier 1.8. I was driving cars on private land from the age 9 in fields and such like and learnt alot of trial and error car control from that rear cortinas , mini's etc. Never had esp any of them.

I have a level of instintive car control which doesnt work well with these systems. Its just my novice opinion but it also held by nigel albright hpc's first chairman and also ran thruxton skid pan advanced car control course.

[MikeG]

There is someone in the team who may be familiar.

You wouldn't want the one first on the left to be after you - but then he might not be able to smash your window in......?
Fifth from left is always on the telly.

Ahh, so you know the 'Mad Lancastrian' too. Spent a good few hours together learning a few 'things'.

Mike

[crr003]

Ahh, so you know the 'Mad Lancastrian' too. Spent a good few hours together learning a few 'things'.

Had a drive with him - good fun.