ADUK Archive

James,

Candidates presenting themselves for the basic driving test (DSA) have by and large extremely limited road experience, only a few hours. To expect them to understand the reasons behind some of the procedures as used by IAM / RoSPA etc. would be asking a bit much. Ex. straight lining on roundabouts and offsiding open bends. Ask yourself, how many times have you seen drivers on roundabouts straight line and almost take the front of the car to their right?, and these are presumably experienced drivers. The DSA system is designed to give the novice a system, which if used correctly, combined with effective observation, will hopefuly keep them out of trouble in their early driving career until they have gained more experience, when statistics show a decrease in the number of accidents, as would be expected, for this driver group.

As for calling the Diamond Advanced Test, where you are alowed up to six driver errors, as in the PDI part two, or the DSAs Cardington Advanced Test, where you are alowed no more than two driver errors, non advanced, is farcicle. They use the same system as used on the basic L test, maybe, but they rightly demand a much higher standard of observation, control, and progress, than would be expected of a learner taking their driving test. They are advanced, its just that the system's different.

Nigel ADI
IAM trainee observer

nigel yes they are both different approaches to the same task you have hit the nail on the head 'The DSA system is designed to give the novice a system' not advanced its a basic/novice system reducing the pass grade doesnt make it advanced in my mind it makes it harder L Test.

'Take a english gcse paper and adjust scoring matrix to make it harder doesnt make it a degree in english does it.

Rospa use roadcraft and call it advanced, IAM the same and the police use it for their advanced drivers.

The DIA use DSA leaner teachings with longer test with a higher standard required to pass they dont share the system as do all other advanced tests.

Its my oipinion and it makes sense to me you may well have to be a good driver to pass a Diamond test but I my mind its not advanced beacuse of its lack of structure to achieve the definition od advanced driving.

The 'cardican' test is a test and thats fine as they dont call it advanced.

We are all entitled to our own opinion on that.

StressedDave wrote:None of that is DSA doctrine, I'm afraid, but a way for ADIs to give learners simple rules to follow at a time when they can't take on board loads of extra thinking.

Thank you. Saved me the bother!

jbsportstech wrote:The 'cardican' test is a test and thats fine as they dont call it advanced.

They do. In some literature the part 2 is also described as advanced. In my view 'advanced' is anything that goes beyond the L test. Obviously that's quite a wide field. Subscribing to roadcraft ideals does not make automatically make you more advanced than someone who has never read it.

jb,

Why not just take all the different tests and then see what you think?

On my ADI Part 2, recently, I didn't change anything about my driving from the way I would have driven on a RoSPA re-test, and I passed.

I've always rather agreed with the RoSPA Regional Senior Examiner I was chatting to years ago who said something like, "Well, even RoSPA Gold isn't really advanced as such, but I suppose no-one would join the RoSPA safe and reasonably competent drivers association".

James

jbsportstech wrote:I am not convinced by DIAmond Test...

Would a person wishing to pass this require advanced skills?

jbsportstech wrote:...but only displays hpc on his vehicles.

What's advanced about being a member of the Health Professions Council?

JamesAllport wrote:...but I suppose no-one would join the RoSPA safe and reasonably competent drivers association".

James

Or the Finchley League of Safe Drivers?

I'm sure you can't really be that old, firstmk1, since I'm sure I saw your name on a "young drivers day" post I was looking at earlier

Technically I was too old to be there

Advanced Driving definition (UK), as agreed by the Driving Instructors' Association (DIA), Driving Standards Agency, Institute of Advanced Motorists (IAM), Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents (RoSPA) is "Ability to control the position and speed of the vehicle safely, systematically and smoothly using road and traffic conditions to make reasonable progress unobtrusively, with skill and responsibility. A positive but courteous attitude and a high standard of driving competence based on concentration, effective all round observation, anticipation and planning co-ordinated with good handling skills. The vehicle should always be at the right place on the road at the right time, travelling at the right speed with the correct gear engaged and can always be stopped safely in the distance that can be seen to be clear."
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

JamesAllport wrote:On my ADI Part 2, recently, I didn't change anything about my driving from the way I would have driven on a RoSPA re-test, and I passed.

What would be the result if that was reversed - ADI part 2 driving was done on a ROSPA or IAM advanced test

This scenario surprises me because the DSA have opposite views with regards to positioning etc...

daz6215 wrote:This scenario surprises me because the DSA have opposite views with regards to positioning etc...

No they don't. As mentioned earlier the DSA is not narrowly prescriptive. You can drive in the same style which will get you a rospa diploma and score a perfect result on a DIA advanced or Cardington test. However, if you use what JB considers to be advanced techniques on a novice driving test and you do it badly you will fail. Therefore Adi's do not teach those tehniques to learners.

Since less than half the organizations who have signed up to the agreed definition of advanced driving positively look for those techniques it seems fairly clear that they are not an essential part of advanced driving. The essentials are observation, anticipation, consideration, accuracy and so on.

I tthink you should accept that those who pass any sort of advanced test are advanced drivers, and you should not assume that one kind are any better than another kind. Nor should you care.

It's a defined outcome the DSA are looking for.

vonhosen wrote:It's a defined outcome the DSA are looking for.

Do you consider that this also applies to the agreed definition of advanced driving? Is systematic an outcome or is it prescriptive as to method?