ADIs vs The Haterz

[Grumpyoldwoman]

Not sure what a "big boy" road is?!
Do ADIs focus much attention on teaching making progress (driving at the speed limit if safe to do so)? In my vast experience of being driven by ADIs (all two of them - Learner ADIs, not AD ADIs), neither made what I would consider to be adequate progress - 45/50 in an NSL for example.

I think the DSA test includes a bit on making adequate progress - both ADIs thought 50 in a 60 was adequate.

Sorry, Big Boy road = where there lots of pressure as opposed to Learner Land = where it's peaceful with no pressure - my terminology

In answer to your first question, a big YES! They should do although I've heard a few stories whereby the ADI won't let their pupil go over 40! We should be encouraging the pupil to make normal progress to fit in with the traffic although making it very clear that a speed limit isn't a target. At the end of the day, when they've passed their test, that's what they should have the confidence to do.

In my instruction car, if the traffic is doing 60, I encourage them to do that if the road conditions are favourable and it is safe to do so in THEIR opinion (I've worked on that opinion... ). I can't vouch for any other ADI.

Some patrol Police driving I've seen is questionable as well tbh (tailgating, 40 in a 30 with no blues... tut, tut, tut)!

Why should they have had blues on?

I don't know. Aren't they supposed to drive like the rest of us mignons unless they're on a shout? (ie, within the Law). On one occasion, they didn't appear to be in a 'hurry' they ended up outside a bakers (someone was late for shift perhaps)

[crr003]

In my instruction car, if the traffic is doing 60, I encourage them to do that if the road conditions are favourable and it is safe to do so in THEIR opinion (I've worked on that opinion... ). I can't vouch for any other ADI.

Good to hear!

Some patrol Police driving I've seen is questionable as well tbh (tailgating, 40 in a 30 with no blues... tut, tut, tut)!

Why should they have had blues on?

I don't know. Aren't they supposed to drive like the rest of us mignons unless they're on a shout? (ie, within the Law).

Have a read of this please:
Click me!

[GJD]

Helluva discussion thread if you ALL failed!!!

Not to mention the question of whether we'd still be allowed to drive...

[jont]

Do ADIs focus much attention on teaching making progress (driving at the speed limit if safe to do so)? In my vast experience of being driven by ADIs (all two of them - Learner ADIs, not AD ADIs), neither made what I would consider to be adequate progress - 45/50 in an NSL for example.

I think the DSA test includes a bit on making adequate progress - both ADIs thought 50 in a 60 was adequate.

Back to anecdotal evidence again, but when learning my ADI was certainly keen to see me doing 60 in the nationals. I also had friends fail (one a couple of times) for making inadequate progress. Maybe these days 45 in a 50 is seen as meeting the "eco" mentality rather than "progress" ?

[Grumpyoldwoman]

Thanks for that; loud + clear! That covers the speed but what about the tailgating to get to the bakers, couldn't see that in there...

I will always sell the Police Service as a very positive thing (so no worries there ) from the viewpoint that PC Blogg + PC Bloggett are there to HELP you; I follow it up with sucking air through my teeth and a worried look and say "you don't want to get stopped by a Traffic Cop", they are not there to help you if they do that!

Just a footnote; the point I'm highlighting, is when I'm instructing to the 'book' and a pupil sees everyone, everywhere breaking the 'book' rules, they're thinking 'why should they adhere to it if no-one else is?' Generally, this might be one overlooked reason as to why, months/years after passing the test, some people don't think it's necessary to keep a good standard of driving up (in their eyes) and then they end up doing something devastating.

[Gromit37]

Fred Blogg's himself IS the one who's holding up the traffic not the pupil. I feel so sorry for the pupil when I see them plodding along on a 'big boy' road (particularly when I'm behind them) when it's blatantly obvious they're not ready for it; ADIs bad decision making there. Not only do they reinforce the 'Haterz' (that's for Gareth ) sometimes within their own fraternity , more importantly, it can have catastrophic affects on the pupil's confidence in the early stages of learning too.

I guess they have to learn to mix in with the big boys at sometime. There's not too many ways to give them that experience, and they probably aren't going to learn to flow with the rest of the traffic until after their test. I certainly didn't 20+ years ago when I took my test.

Come to think of it, I still can't!

Strangely, my instructor always insisted on sticking close to the limit where appropriate.

[x-Sonia-x]

I would absolutely love to sit my test again now...and im sure I would pass first time

I don't know if we could class that as 'cheating' or not Have you done any of the DIAmond ones?

Nope...im doing RoSPA training at the moment but havent taken any advanced tests

[Grumpyoldwoman]

Back to anecdotal evidence again, but when learning my ADI was certainly keen to see me doing 60 in the nationals. I also had friends fail (one a couple of times) for making inadequate progress. Maybe these days 45 in a 50 is seen as meeting the "eco" mentality rather than "progress" ?

They learn to drive to fit in with the rest of the traffic. Eco driving does come into it by block changes and 'slowing' using early observation and acceleration sense (amongst other things) particularly in my car - again, I can't vouch for what any other ADI does in their car.

I guess they have to learn to mix in with the big boys at sometime. There's not too many ways to give them that experience, and they probably aren't going to learn to flow with the rest of the traffic until after their test. I certainly didn't 20+ years ago when I took my test.

Come to think of it, I still can't!

Strangely, my instructor always insisted on sticking close to the limit where appropriate.

If they didn't learn how to flow with the traffic before their test, they wouldn't pass the test! IMO many new drivers are better than some current licence holders bar the experience of course. The driving instructor training has changed a lot these days btw!

[zadocbrown]

both ADIs thought 50 in a 60 was adequate.

Well the examiners don't, in my experience. Not if it's a straight, clear road.

[7db]

Ok, I'm persuaded. I hate them now.

[crr003]

Thanks for that; loud + clear! That covers the speed but what about the tailgating to get to the bakers, couldn't see that in there...

Tailgating to one person is assertive driving to another. Don't forget these drivers have had thousands of pounds worth of training and can sometimes appear to be doing things we cannot hope to understand!

Anyway, getting to the bakers is very important. There might have been a robbery.

[Grumpyoldwoman]

Ok, I'm persuaded. I hate them now.

That's just not cricket 7db

[Grumpyoldwoman]

Thanks for that; loud + clear! That covers the speed but what about the tailgating to get to the bakers, couldn't see that in there...

Tailgating to one person is assertive driving to another. Don't forget these drivers have had thousands of pounds worth of training and can sometimes appear to be doing things we cannot hope to understand!

Assertive...??? not convinced

Anyway, getting to the bakers is very important. There might have been a robbery.

Ok, no doughnuts means trouble back at base - Cream Slices just don't cut the mustard so I've heard, ok I see your point... a bit

[TripleS]

Thanks for that; loud + clear! That covers the speed but what about the tailgating to get to the bakers, couldn't see that in there...

Tailgating to one person is assertive driving to another. Don't forget these drivers have had thousands of pounds worth of training and can sometimes appear to be doing things we cannot hope to understand!

Assertive...??? not convinced

No, I'm not always convinced either.

This line about "we've had all the expensive and specialised training, and you haven't, so you don't know what it's all about" is easy to say, but doesn't mean it's beyond question. Folk claim too much sometimes.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[ExadiNigel]

....

Could it be because the term ADI and the DSA go together and most do not like the DSA?

ADIs have competition from other ADIs so there is a choice

DSA....... what competition do they have ???

Interesting point... who could be the contenders for that?....

I would like to see other organisations offer driving tests, though there would still need to be a body overseeing it all to ensure a minimum standard.

I see no reason why someone shouldn't be able to take the IAM test and therefore be exempt from having to take the lower DSA test. You don't have to take an o-level before taking an a-level, so why should driving be any different?

Nigel