Tyre temperatures

[jcochrane]

There is another solution other than the expense of extra wheels and tyres and that is Autosocks. They were all I needed last winter. Just slipped them on for the sections of road where they were needed and then slipped them off where condition's were better. They are not a direct substitute for winter tyres but they will certainly get you going where the summer tyre fails. You will be restricted to 30mph and you mustn't leave them on when you reach ice/snow free tarmac. They only cost about £40 and fold up into a small package that can be thrown into the boot and left there until required.

[TripleS]

....a good all season tyre isn't far behind the performance of the summer tyre in summer conditions or the performance of the winter tyre in winter conditions.

Good. That's the sort of thing the majority of drivers should be able to use as standard, and get good safe results from them, except where they are liable to encounter long spells of severe conditions.

For those who seem inclined to feel that we should all be happy to change from summer tyres to winter tyres according to the season, they might consider this:

Eileen and I now live in a block of retirement flats (for the over-55 age group) and this has a nice private car park, but no garages. In this car park there are currently 11 residents' cars with owners aged between about 68 and 90. The majority of these cars are used for local journeys only, and very rarely do any of them travel long distances, especially in the winter months.

Apart from the cost of spare wheels and tyres, just how many of these people do you expect will readily accept the idea of changing wheels and tyres? None of them are going to do it themselves - not even me, these days - and in any case we have nowhere to store at least 44 spare wheels, which we would have to do if winter tyres became compulsory wear

It's all very well for people who live in semi-detached or detached houses or bungalows with gardens, spare garage space, garden sheds or other outbuildings etc., and the willingness to mess about with wheel changing. What about people who live in my sort of environment, or those living in terrace houses with nothing more than on-street parking? How are they supposed to cope with all this? It's OK for the enthusiast with the facilities to accommodate such a regime, but swapping to winter tyres is certainly not something that should be expected of the majority of drivers.

In my view there should be winter tyres available for those who need them, with all-year-round tyres being used by the vast majority of drivers, and we should dispense with this 'summer tyre' nonsense.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Gareth]

if winter tyres became compulsory

The all season tyres I mentioned also count as winter tyres in European countries that have a legal requirement for winter tyres.

how many of these people do you expect will readily accept the idea of changing wheels and tyres? None of them are going to do it themselves - not even me, these days - and in any case we have nowhere to store at least 44 spare wheels, which we would have to do if winter tyres became compulsory wear

In the European countries where use of winter tyres is a legal or insurance requirement there are businesses that will change wheels for a small fee -- I think we have a few in this country as well -- but they will also store the unused wheels/tyres when the alternative set is being used. I imagine similar services would quickly develop across the UK.

we should dispense with this 'summer tyre' nonsense

Summer tyres will probably last longer, be quieter and more economical than all season tyres.

Most people buy on price, and perhaps that's one area that summer tyres win, being sold in greater volumes in more territories. Alongside price, most people want long lasting tyres, and that's another area that summer tyres can win. Human nature is working strongly against all season tyres being the norm, so unless there is legislation to force the issue I don't think it is going to happen.

[WS]

In the European countries where use of winter tyres is a legal or insurance requirement there are businesses that will change wheels for a small fee -- I think we have a few in this country as well -- but they will also store the unused wheels/tyres when the alternative set is being used. I imagine similar services would quickly develop across the UK.

This is exactly how it works in Poland - you have the new set of wheels/tyres fitted in a garage and they store the other set for the time you do not use it. NB winter tyres are not a requirement by law here, and for insurance companies - not a requirement either, but perhaps they may use it against you if you had a crash and did not have "proper" tyres fitted. But obviously we have a different climate than the UK (much more snow and lower temperatures).

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

Anyone who lives up a hill, as I do, dreads the approach of any icy or snowy weather. I suspect we are going to see more extreme weather over the next few decades, and we may all start to think slightly differently as we have to contend more and more with proper winter weather.

I'm surprised that Dave, in North Yorkshire, never sees ice or snow

[TripleS]

we should dispense with this 'summer tyre' nonsense

Summer tyres will probably last longer, be quieter and more economical than all season tyres.

Most people buy on price, and perhaps that's one area that summer tyres win, being sold in greater volumes in more territories. Alongside price, most people want long lasting tyres, and that's another area that summer tyres can win. Human nature is working strongly against all season tyres being the norm, so unless there is legislation to force the issue I don't think it is going to happen.

OK thanks, Gareth.

What I seek is long life, quiet running and low rolling resistance, plus a reasonable level of grip in our normal mix of weather conditions. Perhaps summer tyres are the best answer for me after all.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[TripleS]

Anyone who lives up a hill, as I do, dreads the approach of any icy or snowy weather. I suspect we are going to see more extreme weather over the next few decades, and we may all start to think slightly differently as we have to contend more and more with proper winter weather.

I'm surprised that Dave, in North Yorkshire, never sees ice or snow

Oh we do get a bit, and last winter it was rather more than a bit, and several doses too. Twas nowt like 1963 though!

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Standard Dave]

One of the companies that has been mentioned on here before mentions winter tyres on this link http://www.blackcircles.com/tyres/winter-tyres

This is a more balanced article although still trying to sell more expensive winter tyres.
http://www.conti-online.com/generator/w ... tyres.html

I can't find the original article I found which stated that summer tyres take longer to stop in winter and that winter and off road tyres take longer in tempertaures above 7C or on hard road surfaces. But this Canadian article says something similar
http://www.wheels.ca/Tire%20Talk/article/785674


While I think it's a good idea to fit the most appropriate tyres for any conditions, I feel that fitting winter tyres is a costly way of trying to improve performance when other factors such as driving style or observation would more than compensate for the change in conditions.

Snow socks might be a solution if we have heavy snow or if you require to climb a problem hill.

[Gareth]

I feel that fitting winter tyres is a costly way of trying to improve performance when other factors such as driving style or observation would more than compensate for the change in conditions.

My experience last winter of driving on ice and snow in the south of England is that there can be a huge difference between good quality winter tyres and good quality summer tyres. Yes, skillful driving can often enable one to keep moving, but I found that winter tyres enabled me to drive even where exceedingly skillful drivers hadn't been able pass.

[Gareth]

Whats the cost of 5 suitable wheels and 5 winter tyres for say a Ford Focus

From mytyres, which probably isn't the cheapest but certainly is convenient, about £109 including VAT and carriage per steel wheel with tyre fitted, (195/65HR15 Kumho KW23, although from checking on WiseBuyers car specification pages I'm not sure this tyre size is correct for a Focus from the last few years).

[jcochrane]

My experience last winter of driving on ice and snow in the south of England is that there can be a huge difference between good quality winter tyres and good quality summer tyres. Yes, skillful driving can often enable one to keep moving, but I found that winter tyres enabled me to drive even where exceedingly skillful drivers hadn't been able pass.

I would certainly second that having driven Gareth's car in snow conditions. They make an amazing difference. With the winter tyres we were able to make near normal progress and passed other cars driven by experienced and skilled drivers that were seriously struggling to make any progress at all. Some having to turn back and find other routes.

[gannet]

EVO magazine ran one of their long termers on winter tyres last year - and did a comparison (admittedly on track) of an identical car on summer tyres - the results spoke for themselves...

here it is

[stefan einz]

I do tend to agree that the winter tyre debate can be overhyped. But at the same time, many modern high performance tyres are optimised to generate additional grip at high temperatures. The compounds used are "soft", to use the stock phrase, and can generate tremendous amounts of chemical grip to add to the mechanical grip of the tyre. In the right conditions, such tyres can generate up to 1.5 g of lateral grip, 50% more than most normal tyres - so it is not surprising they are compromised in the wrong conditions.

These tyres tend to lose quite a serious proportion of their grip at very low temperatures, more so than a regular tyre. I remember experiencing an unexpected loss of traction when changing lanes and accelerating on a dual carriageway. I was in third gear, around 50 mph, and as I squeezed the gas the back of the car squirmed. The tyre was a special compound Michelin Pilot Sport 2 with a 335 section. Outside temperature was 3 deg C, and I had been driving for over 2 hours. So the tyre was clearly operating in a sub optimal range.

My current daily car is a Cayenne. During the dreadful winter last, it was clear the clever electronics and 4wd system could get the car moving, even on a slippery gradient. But stopping the car was another matter. The car is running summer, performance oriented tyres. This year, I have just bought a set of winter tyres and I am interested to see the difference it makes. Many friends have said that winter tyres have surprised with the extra confidence and grip generated even on just cold and wet days.

Overall, I can readily believe winter tyres offer a significant advantage over more extreme sports tyres which need to be used with great caution in cold conditions; my Cayenne test will give me more insight when comparing against a more typical summer tyre.

Cheers

[Custom24]

I can't find the original article I found which stated that summer tyres take longer to stop in winter and that winter and off road tyres take longer in tempertaures above 7C or on hard road surfaces. But this Canadian article says something similar
http://www.wheels.ca/Tire%20Talk/article/785674

Sorry to resurrect this again, but I just was looking to see when it is recommended to change over, and I found this;

https://www.nationwideautocentres.co.uk ... ntertyres/

It doesn't attribute its "expert" quote, but it is interesting that

"There is a slight trade off with stopping distances as a winter tyre does not stop as quickly in the dry as a summer tyre, however, on balance if it is not possible to switch tyres in the winter, experts say you are better off with winter tyres all year round. This is because the difference in stopping distances of summer tyres in winter is far greater than for winter tyres in the summer."

[Gareth]

I just was looking to see when it is recommended to change over

I keep an eye on the temperature for my normal (morning and evening) journeys and also the maximum daytime temperature. If the peak is below 7C then I reckon I should be on the winter tyres. If I see a temperature above 7C on my normal journeys then I suspect not.

Last year I fitted them at the end of November and took them off well into April, probably a little late for the conditions. This year my initial plan is to use them for the whole of December through February, but I'll extend that period based on the weather forecasts. Currently I'm waiting to see what is expected for next week.

Bear in mind that I live in Berkshire - I would expect that people in the north of the UK might initially plan to use them for a longer period.