Top Gear's three "wise" men.

[GJD]

It's in the highway code so I'd have thought Joe Public has as much chance of knowing that as they do any of the other rules (which, I admit, is not much chance unless they bother to remember or reread what they read when they were learning).

So, honestly, before looking it up, what was your guess?

Honestly? I knew that they highway code said 100m visibility.

Probably because the widespread unnecessary use of rear fog lights irritates me immensely, and so to make sure I can fully justify to myself my feelings of outrage and moral superiority when I pass an offender, I have previously checked what the rules say and remembered them.

I'm sure there are things in the highway code that I don't know off the top of my head, but that isn't one of them .

[Horse]

In all of the on-road shots none of the three had proper and full control of their vehicle. I saw many variants of the one-handed steering technique, sometimes degenerating into the two or three fingers technique.

Their collective "wisdom" must be questioned. None of them would pass even a DSA test.

How often did they crash because of poor steering technique?

[Horse]

Dave.

I've just seen - briefly - a BMW X? with the reg. TR1PL S or very similar. You?

[Horse]

Quiz question provided by RoADAR examiner at recent talk:

"What constitutes 'seriously reduced visibility'?" *

A mate explains his use of front fogs as "It's dark - that's reduced visibility".

I counter with: "I can see the moon and stars; visibility can't be that bad."

[Syncopator]

How often did they crash because of poor steering technique?

You had better ask them.

Our electrical installations are protected by fuses or breakers. That you or I haven't had a fuse blow or a breaker open for x years dosen't mean they don't need to be fitted.

It seems to me that you want an argument for the sake of arguing. Ok, go ahead, but you won't do it with me.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

You obviously read his signature You've been rumbled, Horse!

[fungus]

It's in the highway code so I'd have thought Joe Public has as much chance of knowing that as they do any of the other rules (which, I admit, is not much chance unless they bother to remember or reread what they read when they were learning).

So, honestly, before looking it up, what was your guess?

Honestly? I knew that they highway code said 100m visibility.

Probably because the widespread unnecessary use of rear fog lights irritates me immensely, and so to make sure I can fully justify to myself my feelings of outrage and moral superiority when I pass an offender, I have previously checked what the rules say and remembered them.

I'm sure there are things in the highway code that I don't know off the top of my head, but that isn't one of them .

The handbook of my Fiesta states that fog lights should not be used when visibility is above 50mtrs .

[waremark]

Actually, I'm with Horse too... having both hands on the wheel in an approved position is no guarantee to suitable control any more than their absence. I often, as a demonstration (to try and ease the death grip that many clients have on the wheel), do a max. speed lap of the outer handling at Millbrook using a single finger to steer...

He is being economical with the truth. He uses his right foot to help the finger on the wheel.

Both Don Palmer and Andy Walsh do similar exercises. Personally, I think it is a good idea when steering with one hand always to have your second hand on standby in case of need.

[Horse]

You obviously read his signature You've been rumbled, Horse!

Actually, if he doesn't want to answer questions, he's the one who'd be better off posting on a blog than desiring one post forum threads . . .

[zadocbrown]

Of course, the 100m rule is oversimplistic even for those that are aware of it. I would probably never have fog lights on with someone close behind, for example.

[MGF]

Actually, I'm with Horse too... having both hands on the wheel in an approved position is no guarantee to suitable control any more than their absence. I often, as a demonstration (to try and ease the death grip that many clients have on the wheel), do a max. speed lap of the outer handling at Millbrook using a single finger to steer...

But is "not crashing" a particularly good indicator of being in suitable control? I would suggest suitable control would be a bit more than that.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

How would you know, though?

Imagine two cars driving along a road, one following the other.

One is driven by an "advanced" driver. He religiously keeps two hands on the wheel for as much time as humanly possible, aiming to keep them always equidistant from the vertical and horizontal centre lines of the wheel, only removing a single hand for gearchanges when there is no other vehicle in the vicinity.

(for "he" substitute "she" if preferred, below)

The other is driven by a "modern" driver. He is relaxed in the environment provided by his modern car. Steering takes almost no effort, so he uses only one hand, or some fingers of that hand. He follows, or is followed by, the other car. His brain operates with a similar precision to the driver in the other car. His observation is adequate for the circumstances he finds himself in. He doesn't feel obliged to stick to any pre-conceived ideas about hand position on the steering wheel.

Why is car 2 more likely to crash than car 1?

From the outside, how do you know which is the "advanced driver" ?

What constitutes "full", "proper" or "suitable" control? The last is particularly interesting, since it suggests higher or lower levels of control dependent on circumstances. Maybe driver 2 anticipates trouble sometimes, and replaces his second hand on the steering wheel in advance. Does that make his control of his vehicle less "suitable" at other times?

[TripleS]

Dave.

I've just seen - briefly - a BMW X? with the reg. TR1PL S or very similar. You?

No sir. A W registered Peugeot 406 in a nice shade of blue is my normal mode of transport. In any case I'm too tight to spend money on personalised or cherished number plates.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[TripleS]

Actually, I'm with Horse too... having both hands on the wheel in an approved position is no guarantee to suitable control any more than their absence. I often, as a demonstration (to try and ease the death grip that many clients have on the wheel), do a max. speed lap of the outer handling at Millbrook using a single finger to steer...

He is being economical with the truth. He uses his right foot to help the finger on the wheel.

Both Don Palmer and Andy Walsh do similar exercises. Personally, I think it is a good idea when steering with one hand always to have your second hand on standby in case of need.

Yes; be prepared. Were you a boy scout?

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[TripleS]

How would you know, though?

Imagine two cars driving along a road, one following the other.

One is driven by an "advanced" driver. He religiously keeps two hands on the wheel for as much time as humanly possible, aiming to keep them always equidistant from the vertical and horizontal centre lines of the wheel, only removing a single hand for gearchanges when there is no other vehicle in the vicinity.

(for "he" substitute "she" if preferred, below)

The other is driven by a "modern" driver. He is relaxed in the environment provided by his modern car. Steering takes almost no effort, so he uses only one hand, or some fingers of that hand. He follows, or is followed by, the other car. His brain operates with a similar precision to the driver in the other car. His observation is adequate for the circumstances he finds himself in. He doesn't feel obliged to stick to any pre-conceived ideas about hand position on the steering wheel.

Why is car 2 more likely to crash than car 1?

From the outside, how do you know which is the "advanced driver" ?

What constitutes "full", "proper" or "suitable" control? The last is particularly interesting, since it suggests higher or lower levels of control dependent on circumstances. Maybe driver 2 anticipates trouble sometimes, and replaces his second hand on the steering wheel in advance. Does that make his control of his vehicle less "suitable" at other times?

I would suggest that rather than 'full' or 'proper', the important words are 'adequate' or 'satisfactory' - in relation to the current circumstances, and what may reasonably be expected could happen.

It does rather sound as if the OP doesn't even want to hear different viewpoints, let alone give them fair consideration. Even I don't expect everybody to agree with me all the time: most of the time will suffice.

Best wishes all,
Dave.