Do driving instructors drive like learners?

[michael769]

My concern is that such an attitude risks leaving the stereotypical young male driver very poorly equipped for the type of driving that some will choose to adopt post test. Perhaps this is part of why some new drivers have such an awful record.

[jont]

My concern is that such an attitude risks leaving the stereotypical young male driver very poorly equipped for the type of driving that some will choose to adopt post test. Perhaps this is part of why some new drivers have such an awful record.

and perhaps why they treat pre-test training with such contempt?

[PeterE]

My concern is that such an attitude risks leaving the stereotypical young male driver very poorly equipped for the type of driving that some will choose to adopt post test. Perhaps this is part of why some new drivers have such an awful record.

Indeed, and it encourages the view that "spirited" driving is something diametrically opposed to "learner" driving, especially on the point of legal compliance, which, as we all know here, isn't necessarily so.

[MGF]

Isn't driving "like a learner" driving below DSA test standard?

[martine]

I've just taken Part 2 and was advised to drive "as if giving a demonstration to a learner of what's required to pass the learner test, but not drive like a learner",

Yes I was told that as well - what I understood they meant is: obey all the rules and DSA guidance but drive 'confidently'.

I got a DF for "use of speed" on some country roads - not exceeding the speed limit, but apparently being a bit too progressive for the conditions.

It's pathetic isn't it? I suppose the only point might be if you drive like your hair's on fire (your normal driving style sir) it might be dangerous for a learner to attempt to emulate you esp. once they've passed their test and without your guidance.

And ECO is everywhere - I was told not to use more than 2.5k revs for accelerating through the gears for example.

Arrrggh! Bad advice - I certainly didn't restrict myself so much on P2 and passed with 2 minors.

Good luck with your retest...it's frustrating to have to fit into the DSA's view...you wait 'till P3!

[vonhosen]

My concern is that such an attitude risks leaving the stereotypical young male driver very poorly equipped for the type of driving that some will choose to adopt post test. Perhaps this is part of why some new drivers have such an awful record.

The area that the stereotypical young male driver is poorly equipped is attitude stemming from the beliefs/values held.

The problem with traditional training is that it isn't equipped to address that problem (the problem is also evident in drivers from other demographics, not just reserved for young males) & it appears to me that the DSA both a) recognise that limitations in traditional methods more than & b) are rather more 'progressive' in promoting change to deal with those limitations, than the so called 'advanced driving' organisations.

[crr003]

I got a DF for "use of speed" on some country roads - not exceeding the speed limit, but apparently being a bit too progressive for the conditions.

It's pathetic isn't it? I suppose the only point might be if you drive like your hair's on fire (your normal driving style sir) it might be dangerous for a learner to attempt to emulate you esp. once they've passed their test and without your guidance.

But that was the thing - it was bland but I thought I would show a little bit of "flair". Maybe if the standard was to teach getting round bends rather than just hoping you're slow enough on entry, there'd be less youth falling off roads post test. Annoying to think slowing it down a few mph would have made him happier.

Good luck with your retest...it's frustrating to have to fit into the DSA's view...you wait 'till P3!

Who said I failed? (Oh - just realised - driving fault not dangerous fault )

[waremark]

My concern is that such an attitude risks leaving the stereotypical young male driver very poorly equipped for the type of driving that some will choose to adopt post test. Perhaps this is part of why some new drivers have such an awful record.

The area that the stereotypical young male driver is poorly equipped is attitude stemming from the beliefs/values held.

The problem with traditional training is that it isn't equipped to address that problem (the problem is also evident in drivers from other demographics, not just reserved for young males) & it appears to me that the DSA both a) recognise that limitations in traditional methods more than & b) are rather more 'progressive' in promoting change to deal with those limitations, than the so called 'advanced driving' organisations.

Please will you tell us more about DSA initiatives to address questions of attitude?

This may well be a lower priority for the advanced driving organisations, all of whose 'pupils' come of their own volition and because they wish to improve their driving skills.

[ROG]

This may well be a lower priority for the advanced driving organisations, all of whose 'pupils' come of their own volition and because they wish to improve their driving skills.

I've never had an associate with a bad attitude .....yet

I have had 1 or 2 drivers on LGV DSA test courses with bad attitudes

[fungus]

I have never had an associate with a bad attitude, but I have had the odd learner with an attitude problem.

It is very difficult to alter someones beliefs, as beliefs are formed by life experiences, and I would also imagine to a very large degree, by social and economic circumstances, and the environment they have been brought up in. This in itself makes it difficult for someone who has not experienced those conditions to fully understand the underlying problems that are causing the bad attitude.

[vonhosen]

My concern is that such an attitude risks leaving the stereotypical young male driver very poorly equipped for the type of driving that some will choose to adopt post test. Perhaps this is part of why some new drivers have such an awful record.

The area that the stereotypical young male driver is poorly equipped is attitude stemming from the beliefs/values held.

The problem with traditional training is that it isn't equipped to address that problem (the problem is also evident in drivers from other demographics, not just reserved for young males) & it appears to me that the DSA both a) recognise that limitations in traditional methods more than & b) are rather more 'progressive' in promoting change to deal with those limitations, than the so called 'advanced driving' organisations.

Please will you tell us more about DSA initiatives to address questions of attitude?

Modernising training etc.
http://www.selkentadi.co.uk/wp-content/ ... ndoc-1.pdf

This may well be a lower priority for the advanced driving organisations, all of whose 'pupils' come of their own volition and because they wish to improve their driving skills.

These drivers still have their emotions/beliefs/values underpinning their actions.

[vonhosen]

This may well be a lower priority for the advanced driving organisations, all of whose 'pupils' come of their own volition and because they wish to improve their driving skills.

I've never had an associate with a bad attitude .....yet

That isn't necessarily a good thing though.

[waremark]

Please will you tell us more about DSA initiatives to address questions of attitude?

Modernising training etc.
http://www.selkentadi.co.uk/wp-content/ ... ndoc-1.pdf

Thank you for the link. I was impressed by Trevor Wedge (before he was Chief Examiner) when he talked to my local IAM group about the introduction of the Hazard Perception Test. I was left extremely optimistic about the HPT, and have subsequently been extremely disappointed by the failure of the HPT and other changes over the last decade to reduce young driver accident involvement.

In relation to the linked report, I am left wondering both how strong the evidence is for the success rate of the 'Client Centred Learning' approach, and also how the mass of ADI's will be enabled to deliver this style of teaching effectively. As a Daily Mail reader, I am constantly being told that the educational standards of the state school system have been destroyed by implementation of similar approaches to teaching over the last few decades. I greatly hope that there is strong evidence that ADI's can be enabled to achieve better results than under more traditional teaching systems.

I am also entirely unclear what specific steps the DSA proposes which will do more than previously to create appropriate attitudes to risk and to other road users - that was what we were talking about here, and the topic was hardly addressed in the linked report.

[waremark]

This may well be a lower priority for the advanced driving organisations, all of whose 'pupils' come of their own volition and because they wish to improve their driving skills.

I've never had an associate with a bad attitude .....yet

That isn't necessarily a good thing though.

If you mean that the advanced driving organisations probably are not reaching the worst drivers, then of course that is not necessarily a good thing. However, the fact that they appeal to people who actually want to drive well is a valid reason why they do not need to put too much effort into addressing poor attitudes.

[vonhosen]

That isn't necessarily a good thing though.

If you mean that the advanced driving organisations probably are not reaching the worst drivers, then of course that is not necessarily a good thing. However, the fact that they appeal to people who actually want to drive well is a valid reason why they do not need to put too much effort into addressing poor attitudes.

People can display what they want you to see. In a telling environment that is even easier to do. To find out what people 'really' believe, what they truly 'value' & therefore what they'll actually do when away from you, then you have to create an environment that is not judgemental, get them to open up to you & ask rather than tell. You've heard of Johari's window haven't you ?

I've done it before. Gone to someone I want something from, done what they said in order to get it & not believed in it at all. The first time they asked what I thought & I told them, it was dismissed as incorrect because they believed something different. My beliefs didn't change because they told me they knew better, so my behaviour only changed in front of them & until I got what I wanted from them. A learning opportunity for both wasted & they are deluded in believing they've changed my mind. Because of that contact any future contact with them follows a similar pattern if I want something from them.

I see it all the time in others. Saying what they think you want to hear, rather than what they actually believe.