ADUK Archive

ipsg.glf wrote:Von

I wonder if you could explain the different types of courses. I've read in various places that a standard emergency course could be 5, 10 or 15 days long, depending on whether it is beng done for ambulance/blood/rescue or police.

Round my way I regularly see an unmarked Citroen Picasso being used for ambulance driver training.

I imagine there is an awful lot of work goingon the background to ensure commonaliity between all of these sorts of courses.

I've no idea what the other services do, as I say up until now it's the employers that have taken it upon themselves to decide what training their staff should have.

I should point out that blood, bomb disposal, organ donor etc have no exemption from the speed limit under the Road Traffic Regulation Act. It is only Fire, Ambulance, Police & SOCA that do.

The Road Safety Act doesn't change that list itself, but it does give the secretary of state the power to add groups to the list as he/she deems necessary in future.

Rubber_Johnnie wrote:Since October 2006, the driver of any St. John (note no second 's') Ambulance vehicle must have either IAM or RoADAR Silver or above. Certain counties have implemented this as either IAM only or RoADAR Silver or above only. Many counties now have separate IAM and RoADAR groups specifically for this. We do our training and take the test in Crusaders (Renault Master derived A&E ambulances)

That information is not correct they don't require training from those organisations. Approved training decided at a local (county) level is what is required by the national headquarters.

The approved training required under the road safety act 2006 for claiming exemptions from speed limits will bring some continuity to the training delived by different agencies across the country and hopefully be a basis or standard by which other training can be set or compared.

So is the reality that all the St John/Red Cross driver needs, is to pass the standard DSA "L" test?

ROG wrote:So is the reality that all the St John/Red Cross driver needs, is to pass the standard DSA "L" test?

The reality is that in law any emergency service driver only need have passed their DSA test. Beyond that it is what their governing body decides & is self governed.

As said earlier, that changes with the Road Safety Act. You will have to have completed a course that is approved by the secretary of state. Anyone wanting to use exemptions won't be able to decide what is an approved course & who can offer it. The secretary of state will decide what is & who can offer the courses.

Standard Dave wrote:That information is not correct they don't require training from those organisations. Approved training decided at a local (county) level is what is required by the national headquarters.

The approved training required under the road safety act 2006 for claiming exemptions from speed limits will bring some continuity to the training delived by different agencies across the country and hopefully be a basis or standard by which other training can be set or compared.

But that boils down to RoADAR or IAM for most non-HCP members who don't have access to either IHCD D2 or similar which costs money.

Rubber_Johnnie wrote:

Standard Dave wrote:That information is not correct they don't require training from those organisations. Approved training decided at a local (county) level is what is required by the national headquarters.

The approved training required under the road safety act 2006 for claiming exemptions from speed limits will bring some continuity to the training delived by different agencies across the country and hopefully be a basis or standard by which other training can be set or compared.

But that boils down to RoADAR or IAM for most non-HCP members who don't have access to either IHCD D2 or similar which costs money.

Why would a non-emergency vehicle driver need that training? In our service we get trained on the vehicles we use, but if for example I also worked in another county my qualification isn't regonised until familirisation is carried out - if recgonised at all!

Our local East Midland Ambulance Service (EMAS) drivers take an internal course and have ongoing training but do not receive a recognised certificate.
This is why some of them have trained with our group to get a certificate in advanced driving. Usually takes a couple of runs before test as they have learnt their skill with the use of "Roadcraft".

kwakba wrote:Why would a non-emergency vehicle driver need that training? In our service we get trained on the vehicles we use, but if for example I also worked in another county my qualification isn't regonised until familirisation is carried out - if recgonised at all!

Volunteers do do emergency ambulance work (admitedly not the most urgent calls - 'Category C' only usually) subcontracted to the local NHS ambulance trust. Commonly it's during peak periods like New Year's Eve.

Also, but increasingly rarely, volunteer ambulance crews run on blues if they get a patient requiring immediate hospital treatment at an event we are covering, but many counties are banning this because of the increased risk / cost of insurance. Instead we dial 999, and wait for an NHS ambulance to turn up and hand over the patient to them. Seems like a bit of a waste of the £60k+ it costs to purchase the Crusader to me. Especially when the NHS ambulance services are so stretched.

You are right that the advanced driving qual only is only 'valid' in the county that we took the test in, and I believe we are not insured to drive other counties' vehicles.

St John and red cross drivers are insured to drive vehicles that belong to other counties the insurance is a national policy for the fleet so counties that say you can't drive on blues or drive others vehicles are wrong they are making up rules locally which are not in line with national policy.

Volunteer drivers do take part in emergency driving but not all SJA or BRC drivers do (paid or volunteer) so wouldn't need IHCD D2 or even IHCD D1 (patient transport work) they do however for health and safety liability reasons have to be shown to be safe behind the wheel of the vehicles that they drive but in some case this has just involved the production of a DVLA issued driving licence of the appropriate catagory.

Advanced driving is not different between counties or regions so I see no reason why a qualification is only valid in one area.

Standard Dave wrote:St John and red cross drivers are insured to drive vehicles that belong to other counties the insurance is a national policy for the fleet so counties that say you can't drive on blues or drive others vehicles are wrong they are making up rules locally which are not in line with national policy.
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Advanced driving is not different between counties or regions so I see no reason why a qualification is only valid in one area.

Can't deny any of that, but you know what (some) SJA counties are like for ignoring National HQ and making their own policy up! LIONS made up by TIGERs in response to BEARS!!