A339 - why 50mph?

[TripleS]

Just looking at the general overall picture, would ADUK members agree that the more the general traffic increases, the more restrictions on speed is required

I know it should not be this way as drivers should be able to adapt to curent conditions but unfortunately this does not happen.

The only way forward that I can see is an electronic variable limit on every road in the network.

Or

Every driver to become an advanced motorist - where is that flying pig.....

I think road users are fairly good at adjusting to the conditions, one aspect of which is using reduced speeds when traffic is heavy. So far as I can tell this happens fairly naturally. Were this not the case the accident rate would be hugely greater than it is. Also you can not sensibly put a low speed limit on a road and make it permamanent ( i.e. 24/7 as they say) just because that road is very busy for part of the time.

....and I certainly do not want a mammoth system of technology and electronics controlling all this. Even if one thought this could be achieved with a reasonable success rate, nobody can assure us that it wouldn't introduce new problems of its own. On balance we might therefore be no better off than if we were to concentrate our efforts on improving road user behaviour, and that would surely be the nicer way to do it.

Unlike those of us who frequent these forums I doubt if the bulk of the driving population is yet seeing the way things are heading here, and when they do find out and it all sinks in, I doubt if they will be happy with it. In the meantime the government goes on pouring large sums of money into technology based measures that we probably don't want, and which may not work anyhow.

I note your 'flying pig' reference, but I still say driver education is the way to go, rather than trying to impose solutions with technology.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[TripleS]

Just looking at the general overall picture, would ADUK members agree that the more the general traffic increases, the more restrictions on speed is required

You'll find on the most congested parts of the motorway and dual carriageway/special roads network, speed limits (usually enforced) are being used to increase lane capacity and reduce tailgating (an unexpected benefit of average speed cameras!!). The latter has the benefit of reducing shunts and therefore reducing delays at peak times.

However, in many places reduced speed limits are being introduced due to local/community/political pressures and maybe with a bit of NIMBYism??? I can't help that think that the person who complains about the speed of traffic through their community are likely to be 'speeding' through yours.

....as well as his own!

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[ExadiNigel]

....but I still say driver education is the way to go, rather than trying to impose solutions with technology.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

I would agree that driver education should be playing a big part in the road safety program. But then I would wouldn't I?

Nigel

[MGF]

...I do not see this as a way to successfully get drivers to respect speed restrictions. The more you restrict people the more they will resist.

I don't think there has been much evidence of UK society resisting restrictions on their freedom for decades.

[waremark]

I'd imagine that because a proportion of people are treating NSL as no speed limit, this is the result.

Do you think that there are a significant number of dangerous drivers around who respect red ring limits but not the NSL? What evidence is there for this?

Personally, I suspect that this particular selective attitude to limits - respecting red ring limits but not the NSL - is most common among those who come from a police driving background or who have been trained by those who come from such a background. Such people are more likely to drive safely. I suspect that most dangerous speeders disrespect all speed limits - and that most driving at a dangerous speed occurs within the speed limit!

[vonhosen]

I'd imagine that because a proportion of people are treating NSL as no speed limit, this is the result.

Do you think that there are a significant number of dangerous drivers around who respect red ring limits but not the NSL? What evidence is there for this?

It isn't aimed at those who don't give a damn, it's aimed at those who generally would but make mistakes nevertheless & we all suffer errors of judgement. We all have the potential to do something dangerous.

[Big Err]

I think road users are fairly good at adjusting to the conditions, one aspect of which is using reduced speeds when traffic is heavy. So far as I can tell this happens fairly naturally.

When roads get busier the speed is dictated by the slower vehicles, not by people naturally lifting off the gas.

Were this not the case the accident rate would be hugely greater than it is.

The inability to drive faster in such conditions keeps the casualty rate down, but many shunts (mostly unreported damage only) still occur. Technology is the saving grace with improved brakes and braking systems on vehicles.

Also you can not sensibly put a low speed limit on a road and make it permamanent ( i.e. 24/7 as they say) just because that road is very busy for part of the time.
....and I certainly do not want a mammoth system of technology and electronics controlling all this. Even if one thought this could be achieved with a reasonable success rate, nobody can assure us that it wouldn't introduce new problems of its own.

Absolutely agree, the means are there to enforce such systems (M25/M42 sites) but are expensive and yet again the approach to improving traffic flows and reducing casualties is done with the "big stick".

On balance we might therefore be no better off than if we were to concentrate our efforts on improving road user behaviour, and that would surely be the nicer way to do it.

Absolutely - and I guess that's why many of us are here.

I note your 'flying pig' reference, but I still say driver education is the way to go, rather than trying to impose solutions with technology.

And on that topic:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7803997.stm

[brianhaddon]

...I do not see this as a way to successfully get drivers to respect speed restrictions. The more you restrict people the more they will resist.

I don't think there has been much evidence of UK society resisting restrictions on their freedom for decades.

In the driving context I was not thinking of direct objections such as the metric martyrs or poll tax but of ignoring tactics (however I believe for things outside of driving the potential is there). The more 'unrealistic' you create a limit the less likely I feel it will be adhered to, and this possibly spill over to other limits. 'Restrictions' have been introduced into our lives so slowly that you have look back far to see the difference.
I will accept, though, that probably the majority of the driving public will just accept what measures are being taken until we eventually end up with the driving task being taken away from us completely. (But that will be a long way ahead). The latest news about speed limiters that Big Err pointed us at is merely a stepping stone in my mind.

Regards
Brian Haddon